Before we discard Kelly and Smith, consider…

[albany ed]

Ladies, ladies. Let's play nice.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by albany ed

For me, both Kelly and Smith have become part time players, so they are the chief reason depth becomes more important. .

To me this is the biggest factor in letting them go as well. Even if both Kelly and Smith were playing at the level they were earlier in their careers you can't pay them like we have been if they're only gong to be available ~60% of the time.

It borders on insanity to let Kelly walk and at the same time lose Braden Smith to either retirement or release.

Ballard did that once and we had our worst season since 2017. Who wants to live through that again.

If Smith retires, then resign Kelly. If Smith agrees to stay and restructure, then you consider letting Kelly walk.

The big difference between now and then is that Goncalves and Bortolini are far better than Pryor and an out of position Pinter.

I agree that we have many holes to fill, which is why I would part ways with Smith. It's better to get out on a player a year early than a year late, and having Goncalves means we have a starting caliber RT at a fraction of the price, and the money saved can be reallocated to address some of those roster needs. Backup OT is also a much cheaper position to fill than starting RT. I'd be willing to draft a rookie and let he and Freeland battle it out for the swing tackle spot if it meant Jevon Holland and D.J. Reed/Charvarius Ward were shoring up the secondary.

Definitely agree with this. Of course this assumes that Ballard will take the additional salary cap space we'll get from releasing Smith and put it to good use rather than stick it in his next year(s) lock box. I know he said he is going to be more active in FA at his year end presser, but we've heard similar promises in the past where in the end he didn't do a single thing (improving the secondary in his post '23 season presser for example).

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

To me this is the biggest factor in letting them go as well. Even if both Kelly and Smith were playing at the level they were earlier in their careers you can't pay them like we have been if they're only gong to be available ~60% of the time.



The big difference between now and then is that Goncalves and Bortolini are far better than Pryor and an out of position Pinter.



Definitely agree with this. Of course this assumes that Ballard will take the additional salary cap space we'll get from releasing Smith and put it to good use rather than stick it in his next year(s) lock box. I know he said he is going to be more active in FA at his year end presser, but we've heard similar promises in the past where in the end he didn't do a single thing (improving the secondary in his post '23 season presser for example).

Dammy---- in response to your continued pestering of me to be laptop GM see the great breakdown above from NORM^^^^^^

And for the record, I have in the past provided specific example of what I would do in terms of personnel. You of course couldn't stand the idea (principally because it involved getting rid of a current Colts player [I used to wonder if you were secretly Pags posting, but perhaps you are really Chris Ballard since you seem to think EXACTLY like him and seem really content with sucking forever just because you like your guys]. So shut your trap about not backing up my bitching with "solutions".

As for Kelly. I heard some talk on the radio that Kelly is expecting a 2 year deal for $19M which would make him the 7th highest paid center in the league. Nope, nope, nope. $8.5 for a guy that is basically a part time player when we have what appears to be a good replacement already on the roster and at a steep discount- hell no! Tell him, 1 year deal $6M, games played incentive kicker that can push it to $8M max if he starts all 17, or else take a hike. He would of course walk; Insert Bortolini and go get some decent backup either late in the draft or off someone else's roster (get a vet at the position FBF!).

Smith- due $17M this year, $17 fucking million dollars; that would rank him 10th in RT's. There isn't a fucking way in hell you keep him at that rate. Sorry, probably has had some tragic thing happen in his family, that sucks, doesn't change the economics. There are approximately 30 fucking RT's up in FA this year. About 10 of them making $5M or less. Just go get one of those guys, give them a few extra bucks, draft a mid round RT, and say good-bye to Smith; the time has come for that from both a productivity and money standpoint.

Are you fucking happy now? Or, should I include what type of conditioning program I want them doing, outline my expectations for their sleep patterns, provide feedback on whether they should stay in Indy in the offseason or work with a trainer in Birmingham? You do realize, we're fans here, that none of us actually get paid by the NFL in any way right? What we type here in terms of solutions has effectively ZERO fucking impact on the realities of NFL organizations? Fans rant and rage, because they are FANS, not GM's, not coaches, not NFL players---- You get that correct?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood

Dammy---- in response to your continued pestering of me to be laptop GM see the great breakdown above from NORM^^^^^^

And for the record, I have in the past provided specific example of what I would do in terms of personnel. You of course couldn't stand the idea (principally because it involved getting rid of a current Colts player [I used to wonder if you were secretly Pags posting, but perhaps you are really Chris Ballard since you seem to think EXACTLY like him and seem really content with sucking forever just because you like your guys]. So shut your trap about not backing up my bitching with "solutions".

As for Kelly. I heard some talk on the radio that Kelly is expecting a 2 year deal for $19M which would make him the 7th highest paid center in the league. Nope, nope, nope. $8.5 for a guy that is basically a part time player when we have what appears to be a good replacement already on the roster and at a steep discount- hell no! Tell him, 1 year deal $6M, games played incentive kicker that can push it to $8M max if he starts all 17, or else take a hike. He would of course walk; Insert Bortolini and go get some decent backup either late in the draft or off someone else's roster (get a vet at the position FBF!).

Smith- due $17M this year, $17 fucking million dollars; that would rank him 10th in RT's. There isn't a fucking way in hell you keep him at that rate. Sorry, probably has had some tragic thing happen in his family, that sucks, doesn't change the economics. There are approximately 30 fucking RT's up in FA this year. About 10 of them making $5M or less. Just go get one of those guys, give them a few extra bucks, draft a mid round RT, and say good-bye to Smith; the time has come for that from both a productivity and money standpoint.

Are you fucking happy now? Or, should I include what type of conditioning program I want them doing, outline my expectations for their sleep patterns, provide feedback on whether they should stay in Indy in the offseason or work with a trainer in Birmingham? You do realize, we're fans here, that none of us actually get paid by the NFL in any way right? What we type here in terms of solutions has effectively ZERO fucking impact on the realities of NFL organizations? Fans rant and rage, because they are FANS, not GM's, not coaches, not NFL players---- You get that correct?

IndyNorm essentially agreed with me in the post you call a great breakdown, so glad we're on the same page now.

I'll take your suspicion that I am Chris Ballard as a compliment as he is one of the best football talent evaluators in the world and he's also pretty good at roster construction. The one area where I've found a lot of disagreement with him is the QB position. Stroud was worth trading the farm for in my opinion. I hope he ends up right about Richardson, because the ceiling is still best QB in the league, it's just clear that I was right that the floor was out of the league in 5 years, and thus far, his results have come much closer to the floor than the ceiling.

You say again that you'd lowball Kelly expecting him to walk and cut Smith, nothing new and courses of action on which we agree. That's not interesting. Interesting would be figuring out what to do with the newfound cap space in free agency, and how that effects draft strategy.

For example, as I've stated many times on this thread, my plan A would be to pursue Jevon Holland and one of D.J. Reed and Charvarius Ward. The secondary is badly in need of upgrades, and doing nothing about that pretty much locks in TE, S, and CB as the first 3 picks in the 2025 draft. I think IDL is a much bigger need than anyone is really giving thought to, and if the secondary is addressed in FA, it frees the Colts up to weight need less and BPA more on Days 1 and 2 of the draft.

Asking you to list your preferred free agent targets isn't exactly the same as asking how you'd staff every role within the organization, or apparently how you micromanage those roles. Saying who you’d prefer the Colts to pursue in free agency takes no insider information, the list of free agents is readily available, any game tape you'd want including All-22 can be had for a $100 per year subscription to NFL+, any statistic you would want is available online, most contract data is readily available for free at OverTheCap, and if you want to invent your own metrics and track them, see what I said earlier about the NFL+ subscription. Yes, we don't have as much information as modern NFL teams, but there is a vast amount of information available to us, even as fans. You don't have to lay out a 5 year development plan for each player you say you'd go after, no one person within an NFL organization would do that. That responsibility would mostly be on coaches and internal staff, not even GMs do those things. GMs are responsible for talent evaluation and acquisition.

[YDFL Commish]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

I think IDL is a much bigger need than anyone is really giving thought to

I too believe that IDL is a must upgrade. Buck and Grove are fine, but at 30+ yrs old, how much longer can we keep trotting them out there hoping that they don't break down. Not to mention that we've had a dreaming pile of dog shot behind them since we let Autry walk.

So much for building through the trenches. No DT talent since 2020 has been brought in.

One recommendation, that I have to at least slightly ease the DT
Issue is to move Dayo to 3-tech. To me he's a redundancy with Kwity and is better suited to DT.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

I too believe that IDL is a must upgrade. Buck and Grove are fine, but at 30+ yrs old, how much longer can we keep trotting them out there hoping that they don't break down. Not to mention that we've had a dreaming pile of dog shot behind them since we let Autry walk.

So much for building through the trenches. No DT talent since 2020 has been brought in.

One recommendation, that I have to at least slightly ease the DT
Issue is to move Dayo to 3-tech. To me he's a redundancy with Kwity and is better suited to DT.

I could get behind that if he's brought back. That said, it appears to be a great year to need a DT, 7 of Daniel Jeremiah's top 50 are DTs, and that doesn't include freak athlete Deone Walker.

[Dewey 5]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

IndyNorm essentially agreed with me in the post you call a great breakdown, so glad we're on the same page now.

I'll take your suspicion that I am Chris Ballard as a compliment as he is one of the best football talent evaluators in the world and he's also pretty good at roster construction. The one area where I've found a lot of disagreement with him is the QB position. Stroud was worth trading the farm for in my opinion. I hope he ends up right about Richardson, because the ceiling is still best QB in the league, it's just clear that I was right that the floor was out of the league in 5 years, and thus far, his results have come much closer to the floor than the ceiling.

You say again that you'd lowball Kelly expecting him to walk and cut Smith, nothing new and courses of action on which we agree. That's not interesting. Interesting would be figuring out what to do with the newfound cap space in free agency, and how that effects draft strategy.

For example, as I've stated many times on this thread, my plan A would be to pursue Jevon Holland and one of D.J. Reed and Charvarius Ward. The secondary is badly in need of upgrades, and doing nothing about that pretty much locks in TE, S, and CB as the first 3 picks in the 2025 draft. I think IDL is a much bigger need than anyone is really giving thought to, and if the secondary is addressed in FA, it frees the Colts up to weight need less and BPA more on Days 1 and 2 of the draft.

Asking you to list your preferred free agent targets isn't exactly the same as asking how you'd staff every role within the organization, or apparently how you micromanage those roles. Saying who you’d prefer the Colts to pursue in free agency takes no insider information, the list of free agents is readily available, any game tape you'd want including All-22 can be had for a $100 per year subscription to NFL+, any statistic you would want is available online, most contract data is readily available for free at OverTheCap, and if you want to invent your own metrics and track them, see what I said earlier about the NFL+ subscription. Yes, we don't have as much information as modern NFL teams, but there is a vast amount of information available to us, even as fans. You don't have to lay out a 5 year development plan for each player you say you'd go after, no one person within an NFL organization would do that. That responsibility would mostly be on coaches and internal staff, not even GMs do those things. GMs are responsible for talent evaluation and acquisition.

Chris dipshit Ballard is not even close to being one of the best football talent evaluators in the world. And his team building approach sucks.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Dewey 5

Chris dipshit Ballard is not even close to being one of the best football talent evaluators in the world. And his team building approach sucks.

To be fair he's around league average as far as talent evaluation for GMs, which probably makes him one of the top ~20 football talent evaluators in the world. Agree that his roster construction is below average as the individual parts of his teams are always much better than the sum of the whole.