Ryan benched?

[Hoopsdoc]

Originally Posted by Chaka

It's terrible on several levels. First, and there appears to be differing accounts of this in the media, I'm troubled if Irsay is going to step in and force his GM and head coach to make changes. I like him much better as a hands-off owner. But clearly this was not Frank's (at least) idea because he stated the day before that Ryan was the Colts' QB. I think stepping in and forcing changes, to the extent that actually happened, undermines the guys he hired and that doesn't bode well.

Second, it undermines the experienced guys who came here as free agents. Not only Ryan but also guys like Gilmore, who I'm sure were assuming there wouldn't be an abrupt non-injury related change at the game's most important position only seven games into the season. As to Ryan, I know its been rough, but to give this guy only seven games seems a bit ridiculous. He's been an effective QB for 15 years and he's joining a brand new team and offense, new personnel, and has been running for his life. I think 15 years of quality QB play is enough to earn more than seven weeks. How does this look to other free agents who might consider coming here in the future?

Third, unless they truly believe that Elhinger is truly special, this suggests the Colts will be in development mode for the near future. The colts are 3-3-1 and the season is far from lost. It is not time to give up on the season.
Also, the Colts have built a quality, mostly home grown defense, and have (or at least had) lots of offensive pieces in place. If they have to wait for several years before contending, the Colts will lose all of these guys as they'll become expensive, overpaid free agents.

These are valid points but the thing to keep in mind is, as Bowen points out, Jim GENUINELY believes that this team will be BETTER with Ehlinger at quarterback. He thinks forcing this change will be the catalyst that sends this team to the playoffs.

He may be the only one who thinks that and he may actually be crazy, but his opinion is the only one that matters.

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc

These are valid points but the thing to keep in mind is, as Bowen points out, Jim GENUINELY believes that this team will be BETTER with Ehlinger at quarterback. He thinks forcing this change will be the catalyst that sends this team to the playoffs.

He may be the only one who thinks that and he may actually be crazy, but his opinion is the only one that matters.

No question the guy has the right as the owner to demand whatever he wants. Whether its a good idea or not is a different question. I feel like in recent years, Irsay has been gradually been conditioning himself to become more and more involved in personnel decisions. He gets largely positive press when he allegedly demanded that Carson Wentz be run out of town, which only encourages him further. He then posts comments like his infamous "all chips in" statement which sounds OK at the time, and again fuels his personal perception that he's a badass owner laying down the law.

But this also makes him more personally accountable when things don't go right...which then makes him inject himself further into personnel decisions. Less publicly-involved owners can let things play out and then make rational decisions from their desk without the unnecessary public pressure of having these kind of comments thrown back to them constantly. It's entirely self-created, and I think destructive unless you think that Irsay knows better than Ballard/Reich how to address the situation. I don't.

Perhaps I'm overstating all of this, I don't know. It just feels like a terrible decision, and unless Ehlinger lights it up it will make the Colts look like they are just as clueless as the rest of us.

[nate505]

Originally Posted by Chaka

No question the guy has the right as the owner to demand whatever he wants. Whether its a good idea or not is a different question. I feel like in recent years, Irsay has been gradually been conditioning himself to become more and more involved in personnel decisions. He gets largely positive press when he allegedly demanded that Carson Wentz be run out of town, which only encourages him further. He then posts comments like his infamous "all chips in" statement which sounds OK at the time, and again fuels his personal perception that he's a badass owner laying down the law.

But this also makes him more personally accountable when things don't go right...which then makes him inject himself further into personnel decisions. Less publicly-involved owners can let things play out and then make rational decisions from their desk without the unnecessary public pressure of having these kind of comments thrown back to them constantly. It's entirely self-created, and I think destructive unless you think that Irsay knows better than Ballard/Reich how to address the situation. I don't.

Perhaps I'm overstating all of this, I don't know. It just feels like a terrible decision, and unless Ehlinger lights it up it will make the Colts look like they are just as clueless as the rest of us.

I would feel like it's a terrible decision if I thought it could get much worse. I'm sure it can get worse, but man, this offense in all but one, maybe two games if we're being generous, has just flat out sucked. Like badly, and most of it is due to horrible pass protection and Ryan having the mobility of a sloth on quaaludes. At the very least I hope Ehlinger can figure out how to run for a first down or two.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by nate505

I would feel like it's a terrible decision if I thought it could get much worse. I'm sure it can get worse, but man, this offense in all but one, maybe two games if we're being generous, has just flat out sucked. Like badly, and most of it is due to horrible pass protection and Ryan having the mobility of a sloth on quaaludes. At the very least I hope Ehlinger can figure out how to run for a first down or two.

Some fans are ready to pack it in but I'm not there yet. Could get there soon, but not yet. Like you said, this disaster on offense and somehow we're still 3-3-1 with 10 games left. All he has to do is not be a disaster. Anything extra would be a bonus. But we haven't seen anything from him, so all we can do is speculate.

His arm can't be weaker than Ryan's. His mobility is a plus IF he has poise (obviously the O-line has to do its part). Using mobility wisely like 2018 Andrew Luck is one thing. Becoming hero Carson Wentz after every first read would be ugly.

I'm really hoping his mobility will also help in the run game. Not by scrambling, but possibly by doing some wider runs + play-action/boot + misdirection. We were more creative in run concepts last year.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Some fans are ready to pack it in but I'm not there yet. Could get there soon, but not yet. Like you said, this disaster on offense and somehow we're still 3-3-1 with 10 games left. All he has to do is not be a disaster. Anything extra would be a bonus. But we haven't seen anything from him, so all we can do is speculate.

His arm can't be weaker than Ryan's. His mobility is a plus IF he has poise (obviously the O-line has to do its part). Using mobility wisely like 2018 Andrew Luck is one thing. Becoming hero Carson Wentz after every first read would be ugly.

I'm really hoping his mobility will also help in the run game. Not by scrambling, but possibly by doing some wider runs + play-action/boot + misdirection. We were more creative in run concepts last year.

You underestimate the weakness of Sam Ehlinger's arm. I'm just hoping this disaster of a decision nets the Colts a high enough pick that they can draft a franchise QB and we can all look back on this and laugh.

[YDFL Commish]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

You underestimate the weakness of Sam Ehlinger's arm. I'm just hoping this disaster of a decision nets the Colts a high enough pick that they can draft a franchise QB and we can all look back on this and laugh.

Ehlinger is not particularly weak this season. He has improved in that area and I would definitely put him above Rivers, Brees and Ryan.

The important thing is that Ehlinger can make off schedule throws, not have to have his feet set and not have to put his whole body into certain throws.

Also, this is not a disaster of a decision. The best we were going to finish was 9-7-1 w/Ryan anyway.

Who the fuck wants that, who going to get excited about that? Not me. If we 9-7-1 with Ehlinger, then maybe there's something to build on. If we go 6-9-1 (which I expect we will), then Ballard has to find a way to parlay that into the future QB.

[omahacolt]

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish

Ehlinger is not particularly weak this season. He has improved in that area and I would definitely put him above Rivers, Brees and Ryan.

The important thing is that Ehlinger can make off schedule throws, not have to have his feet set and not have to put his whole body into certain throws.

Also, this is not a disaster of a decision. The best we were going to finish was 9-7-1 w/Ryan anyway.

Who the fuck wants that, who going to get excited about that? Not me. If we 9-7-1 with Ehlinger, then maybe there's something to build on. If we go 6-9-1 (which I expect we will), then Ballard has to find a way to parlay that into the future QB.

you have to understand, in Dam's mind, players are incapable of improving. that and 40 times are all that matter.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

You underestimate the weakness of Sam Ehlinger's arm. I'm just hoping this disaster of a decision nets the Colts a high enough pick that they can draft a franchise QB and we can all look back on this and laugh.

Maybe I am. But I'm only comparing him to 2022 Matt Ryan. Looking at some preseason throws (forget coverage, decisions, etc.), his motion looks a little different than last year and I don't see any throws that I feel would've had more zip if Ryan threw them.

If anything, a throw like vs. DET where he's drifting left, doesn't set, and throws it 51yds in the air is one that Ryan can't make anymore.

I'm really not trying to delude myself over this kid. I'm just trying to look for some elements they claim to see during practice. They promoted him 2-3 weeks ago. Could just all be bullshit and Ehlinger won't be worth a fuck.

[Oldcolt]

We are going nowhere with Ryan, probably nowhere with Ehrlinger also but why not give it a try. Maybe he surprises everyone but at least you have a better idea of what you have going into next year. It at least makes me want to watch the games again, they have reached the point where they were becoming unwatchable.

[TheMugwump]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

You underestimate the weakness of Sam Ehlinger's arm. I'm just hoping this disaster of a decision nets the Colts a high enough pick that they can draft a franchise QB and we can all look back on this and laugh.

Exactly.

Ryan's arm = slightly weaker than NFL average QB
Ehlinger's arm = Phillip River's 2020