Quenton Nelson (G-ND) Rd #1 Pick #6
 

Quenton gets call from Colts ...

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Q...4-d261d1d997f0

:cool:

I just can't get with an OG at 6.

Look, Nelson may well be a very good player. May be an All-Pro. There's no sure thing at any position, OL included (cough Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack cough), so I won't say for sure. I won't be surprised if he's very good.

But let's say Nelson is amazing and the RG/RT situation is still Slauson/Haeg or something like that. Luck is still in mortal danger, and defenses will still shut down your run game because it will be so damn easy to load up on the left side. Does a great OG really have any impact, in that situation?

Let's say Reich's scheme emphasizes quick passing decisions. Isn't an OG's impact neutralized in that situation?

I guess I just look at a lottery OG as a total luxury pick in today's NFL. Is the difference between Nelson and Hernandez or Wynn, for instance, really that big? Is Nelson really going to make more plays for the Colts than a Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds?

The only way you can sell me on an OG that high for the Colts is by telling me this is a cultural statement and trendsetter, and even that feels a bit elusive as a justification.

I still think Day 2 is set up to go very well, and again, none of this is saying Nelson will be a bad player. But I am just philosophically opposed to an OG at 6 the same way many of you are opposed to a RB at 6.

I understand your feelings, for one I would now take Hernandez in 2nd put at right guard. We would have one heck of a OL ... With the front 7 the Jags and Texans have we need it in my opinion... :cool:

And I would have no problem with Hernandez, because he'd be an OG taken in the 2nd round :)

Really, at this point, if the whole idea is that the Colts are investing heavily to protect Luck, they may as well find a RG and/or RT. It doesn't make sense to spend the 6th pick on a guard and leave 2/5 of your line totally inept.

Not-so-bold prediction: Both Roquan Smith and Tremaine Edmunds will make more All-Pro teams than Quenton Nelson.

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...lay/550995002/

:cool:

If he's a HOF type guard, and most scouts tend to believe he is, I'm fine with the pick. Would have rather had Smith by a little bit, but I have no issues whatsoever with a sure fire OL talent, even if it is a guard.

Plus by all accounts he's very passionate about the game and has a great work ethic to go with his talent. All that sounds good to me.

K, you don't like the pick, knew that months ago ... bet Andrew Luck is slightly pleased? :cool:

Sure, why not, let's lose every game 56-49.

You have to be shitting me. After all the bitching on this board about Luck being killed. About the running backs having zero holes about how soft this team is the complaint is that we draft the best offensive lineman, maybe the best player in the draft but he is a guard? He seems to provide dominance at a position we haven’t dominated in ever. He also provides a locker room and game day nastiness that we desperately need Ballard is building thru the trenches. He said he would and he is sticking to his philosophy. I love the direction he is taking this team. Love the pick.

Go root for the Jags ... :cool:

To me there were only 3 players that warranted the number 6 pick in the draft. Chubb, Nelson and Barkley. We got one of them. And Nelson is not your everyday fucking guard, he's a beast and brings an attitude that this fucking team really needs. I would normally agree that picking a guard this high is stupid, but Nelson is a different animal. Go watch tape of this guy and you may change your mind. Protecting Luck and creating running lanes is something that the Colts have needed for a long damn time. Every analyst gave the Colts an A grade for this selection and I agree with them.

I am with gbb on this. Probably a good pick in terms of Nelson being good, but no way he is a difference maker for the team.

every analyst except this guy. https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/26/nf...rades-analysis

I don't necessarily agree though. I think Ballard will get to the other side tonight.

What time does the draft start back up today?

I would be more than happy if we were able to get Will Hernandez with our next pick, our offensive line would be real nasty, which is exactly what you want. We do then need to spend almost all of our remaining day 2 picks on defensive talent though. With a major wish being that tackle, Orlando Brown falls to our pick in the 4th round.

An offensive line in camp consisting of Castonzo, Nelson, Kelly, Hernandez, Haeg, Slauson, Mewhort, Good, Brown, Clark and Bond in my eyes would be an enormous upgrade. Even with an injury or two (which is bound to happen) so long as it wasn't to Castonzo, i would be happy with the backups that could come in.

7 pm EST :cool:

If he helps keep Luck off the ground and off the IR, then that's a huge difference than from the way it has been.

Who says Ballard is done addressing the o-line? He could draft another o-lineman still, bring in some UDFA's, or pick up someone in the post draft cuts.

Nope. Competition is much tougher at LB.

And I say that as someone who would have preferred one of those LBs.

The old Dallas Dynasty was built around guys like Nate Newton.. a guard
Their 0-line just beat you into submission, ground you up..
I'd LOVE to see that in front of Luck.
Given the front sevens we'll face in AFC SOuth, we'd better invest in an O-line or have the ambulance idling to haul Luck off to another year of rehab.
We better be able to go bust them in the mouth from the first snap of the game, coaching, schemes, all that help. But we need big nasty TALENT in front of Luck

Agree here.

I would not have taken a guard at #6. I would've taken Barkley over Nelson. And don't get me wrong, I think Nelson will be a very good player at worst. He's the most-hyped interior OL I can remember in a long time, he played great at ND. But outside of long-snappers and specialists I don't think there's a position in football that affects the entire team less than guard. I think the smarter pick would've been to get one of the top ILBs.

But the pick is done, we have Nelson now and he should be our best OL from day one. As GBB mentioned, you can't stop there. Get Hernandez or Williams early and really go all in on having a top NFL OL. You can't burn that high of a pick on a guard and then just leave uncertainty (Mewhort) or worse (the rest of our guys) at two other positions.

Get another high-end OL, then just take the best defensive players the rest of the way. There are still good players like Maurice Hurst, Harold Landry, Rasheem Green, Josh Jackson, Malik Jefferson, Lorenzo Carter, and BJ Hill available. Throw Shaqueem Griffin in there too.

While I would have preferred Smith, you're underselling the importance of guards in this offense. There's no chance the Eagles win the Super Bowl last year without exceptional guard play.

You're outkicking your coverage in your comments above. Just say that they could have found good guards with less premium picks and leave it at that.

Two stories about Nelson I heard leading up to the draft:

1) Chubb was doing pre-draft workouts at the same place as Nelson and McGlinchey. They started talking about the NC State-ND game from last year. Nelson told Chubb that he noticed early in the game that State would stunt anytime a LB lined up in a certain position. Nelson communicated that to the coaches and the line. Chubb said it effectively took away half of their defensive game plan.

2) Nelson was doing some pre-draft interviews alongside Roquan Smith and another LB. When Nelson left the room, Smith and the other defender gave each other a look and starting talking about how in awe they were of how huge Nelson is.

I acknowledge that I'm splitting hairs here, but he'll be a difference maker to some extent. For instance, I'm a hell of a lot more confident in 3rd/4th and short situations than I've ever been as a Colts fan. He'll be a beast in the run game and screen game.

But does that provide as much of a difference as a sideline to sideline force at LB would have done? No.

Some comments from Reich:

This is some of what I was referring to in my response to GBB. We get caught up in thinking about protecting Luck and the scheme being about quick passes, but Reich wants to mix zone and power run concepts along with screens. Nelson will be great in all of that.

It's a completely rational pick even if I would have gone another direction.

https://twitter.com/DakotaCrawford_/...89641929338880

Just look at this gif. The recognition, mobility, and physicality are unreal. A perfect example of why thinking Nelson doesn't improve the other spots on the line is flatly incorrect.

With Kelly and Nelson there might actually be a pocket for Luck to step up into when needed.
And when we need that 6" for the first down we've never been able to get consistently..
I'd rather have seen Chubb but this is a good pick

I get what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree. The anti-Nelsons on this board have made some good arguments why the pick was bit of a reach. However, I don't think that he was a reach in the traditional sense that no one else would have selected him this high, as I suspect he would have been chosen no later than 8 had the Colts taken someone else.

As to your argument that the opposing team could neutralize his effect by focusing on other areas of the line, wouldn't that thinking apply equally to an OT selected this high? I only ask because it is fairly commonplace for OTs to be taken in the top 5 or 6 picks, and I've never heard anyone use your argument to say that's a mistake. So is your criticism more about selecting an offensive lineman rather than a defensive player? I realize that OTs generally have to deal with better athletes at DE and OLB, but there are lots of tough DTs around too and Nelson should provide an immediate upgrade to our anemic run game.

While I would have been more excited about selecting Chubb, I personally like that we are adding someone who is expected to start and play at a high level from day 1, as I think (barring further Luck problems) that we will compete in 2018.

Yep. Ultimately the correct conclusion, but flawed logic getting there and supporting it.

Totally agree. Wanted Chubb 1st, but Nelson was my 2nd choice. Not fucking disappointed at all.

Nelson loves to hit people. Can't find the one gif where Nelson actually body slams one defender, reminded me of the WWE. Fucker is a beast.

Maybe someone can help me out and explain why it makes perfect sense to “overpay” in the draft for a guard at #6 but it’s not OK to overpay for a known commodity at guard in free agency. It’s a serious question because last night I was told I was to stupid to respond to because I value a high draft pick more than cap space on a team lacking talent but with loads of cap space. With the current lack of talent on the team I don’t see players being cap casualties anytime soon because you over paid for a top young guard in free agency (Norwell or Pugh), but I see the selection of Nelson immediately costing the team a defensive anchor. Seriously - what the hell am I missing?

I completely get where you're coming from, but you're looking too micro here. You're evaluating this from a 2018 perspective, but Ballard isn't.

Ballard has a three year strategy of building through the draft. He has said that he wants to draft the foundation of this roster before supplementing through free agency. It isn't necessarily right or wrong, but it's his strategy and we can't just do a simple evaluation of transactions and how they affect the 2018 team. For example, he could come out in 2020 UFA and sign a stud 27 year-old free agent because of the decisions made in 2018. Spending that cap space now would make the Colts better. Spending that cap space in 2020 could make the difference in elevating the Colts from a contender to a championship.

Nothing

Your point is valid

We didn't "overpay" for Nelson. He was an elite prospect in this draft and would have been chosen within a couple of picks of where he went. That's not overpaying.

It would have been nice to get Norwell, but we don't even know what chance the Colts had in getting him. He may have not wanted to come to the Colts. It certainly would have free'd up a need, but we didn't get him. Since we didn't, it was addressed in the draft, with a guy who is an absolute beast. We got a great player, stop being a pansy and complaining.

I did. It didn't. No. Guard. Is. Worth. The. 6th. Overall. Pick. In. Any. Draft.

I'd rather go back to the Polian days of getting C or C+ draft grades from analysts and winning the division year in and year out.

Assuming there are difference makers to spend it on, right? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that in 2020 Nelson and Norwell (or hell, even Pugh) will be closer in total game impact than Smith (especially) or Edmunds will be to the best free agent LB available that year. Look at the three names you compared Smith to previously and tell me how likely they are to hit free agency in their prime at 26 or 27 yrs old.

You mean the years when we had a good offensive line who protected the QB? Me too. Can't win the division with your franchise QB injured every year.

The difference is tackles usually face the teams best pass rusher who the majority of the time comes from the outside bc he doesn't want to get caught in the trash in the middle. The flip side of that is the rise of 3 tech tackles like Aaron Donald who specialize in taking away the interior of the pocket and not allowing the QB to step up. I think one of the strengths of this draft is the interior oline which is why so many went in the first. But also oline play has deteriorated around the league. Teams are desperate for players to protect their investments (QB's) which has driven the need up. This has lead to shorter passing games and spread concepts. The NFL training camp reports around the league last year were the same every week, teams are desperate for good oline play and especially good tackle play.

Ten years ago, or even 20 I wonder if Nelson would have been taken this high.

We still have a lot of draft left, but I guess next year I can hope for that defensive stud.