Are they even using Hines. Don't get why they won't give him reps.

So you are saying that Ballard decides the starting lineup? If that is so so then Frank is an even weaker ass punk than I thought.

See this is where it gets confusing to me. Ballard signs the guys. But he does not set the depth chart. That's a coach's job. Totally Ballard's fault for not getting a better LT in-house. Although it looks like Raimann and even Fries may work out.

But did they not see how bad he was in camp? Pryor had the job from day 1, no competition. Kelly was hurt to start the season so he couldn't play there. If he was such a liability why wasn't he benched sooner? I mean it took Saturday to come in and bench him.

I blame Ballard for signing him, but I blame Frank for continuing to play him.

They use him on punts, kickoffs, and occasionally on offense as a receiver out of the backfield.

Yeah this whole argument is an exercise in futility. Debating who is better/worse between Ballard and Reich is like choosing between a gremlin and a pinto. Both are shit cars and god forbid you have to rely on either one for transportation.

But you could get a Gremlin with a V8. A better comparison would probably be a Vega.

Raimann was being rotated in game one. That’s not what teams usually do at LT. I’d say Reich knew Pryor sucked but his two options were a shitty vet who had provided previous short term replacement level play or an overwhelmed 3rd round rookie who had only played the position for 2 years. And yes, Raimann sure as fuck looked overwhelmed in his initial action. Reich was trying to develop Raimann. See what he had. No live action isn’t the same as regular games. Neither is the limited preseason. Especially for communication on stunts and blitzes. Raimann started against Denver (under Reich) and sucked. If Reich had started Raimann playing like he did initially people would have been calling for him to be fired for that. Immobile QB and shit at LT, not exactly a recipe for success.

You want to know the reason for the constant slow starts? It’s this shit that Ballard constantly pulls - critical position given away to development. LT, DE, WR have all been recent victims of it.

Yeah, I’m not saying Frank was perfect.

He wasn’t.

But he sure as hell wasn’t the main problem and the team has been objectively worse since he left.

That is not disputable.

I’m pushing back on this idea that, no matter how bad the team looks, or how it somehow manages to look worse every week, Frank was still somehow the problem.

He wasn’t.

He was never the problem and the results since he got fired prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

This team has been a laughingstock since he left.

The anti-Ballard and anti-Reich sentiments are two sides to the same coin. All this clamoring for a head on a pike is the wrong path. We shouldn't have canned Frank Reich. And we shouldn't can Chris Ballard.

It'll be the same kind of realization that we've had after nearly two months without Frank Reich if we were to do the same with Chris Ballard.

I'm not saying that Frank was the problem, but rather that he was not the solution. Yeah maybe we go 8-9 with Frank still coaching, but that was going to be his ceiling.

Saturday was never going to be the solution anyway and that's a fact that we pretty much all agree on.

Keeping a mediocre coach for a decade worked out so well for the Bengals!:D

I sincerely believe that we’d have a Super Bowl by now if Luck hadn’t retired.

I think Reich is a good coach who will generally always field a good offense, provided he has at least some semblance of an offensive roster to work with.

He did not have that this season and it cost him his job.

I think it’s clear by now that, rather than being the reason the Colts were as BAD as they were this season, Frank was actually the only reason they managed to be as GOOD as they were this season.

This team has absolutely collapsed since the Raiders game.

Don't think I could disagree more. This offensive scheme, is world class atrocious. That didn't start when Saturday took over, that started last year, and it didn't just start with the Raiders and Jags failures to end the year, this offense, short of riding the incredible legs of Taylor for several games last year, was BAD. 27 straight passes, numerous dumb 4th down attempts, stupid fucking gimmicky shit plays in goal line situations with the NFL's best running back. Fucking insane situational rotation that keeps anyone from getting continuity (he juggled lineups like bad basketball coaches that sub players in the middle of momentum runs).

As many have pointed out, we've got a new HC, but we're still using the Reich playbook and essentially the same OC because you simply can't install a new offensive plan in the middle of a season (though you could also point out that someone like Belichek can run a different offense seemingly every week, and other teams can put in 3rd string QB's and still be at least competent...).

No, this scheme is worthless. It is predictable, it brings virtually zero explosive elements to the table and it lends itself to the QB having to hold the damn ball because it is so predicated on bullshit levers that have to be pulled in perfect concert for shit to happen. Which, when you have an Oline that is legitimately the worst in the NFL, well you've got a huge fucking problem. This pass out to the flat shit that we run 8 times a game, that's the worst fucking play in the NFL- and somehow we think this is a good thing to do over and fucking over?

As someone pointed out earlier re: the blame game between Reich and Ballard. Yep, Ballard put us in a position where we had dudes like Pryor and Pinter on the roster (which sucks). Frank was their coach, the one that was paid to evaluate and utilize them to the best of their abilities. Somehow Frank allowed Pryor to be the LT for MULTIPLE games- that's just piss poor coaching!

Frank needed to go, Ballard needs to go, Parker needs to go, OL Coach needs to go, along with a bunch of players that just aren't any good at football which includes guys like Smith who just doesn't seem to give a fuck anymore.

Colts had the 11th ranked offense in the league last year with Carson Freaking Wentz as their quarterback. They led the league in rushing.

A bad offensive system doesn’t produce those results.

You just have no idea what you’re talking about.

You hated Reich and wanted him gone and when the team got demonstrably worse after he left you switch to, “well, it’s still his system”.

Bullshit.

Franks system produced above average offenses every year he was here except for the year Luck quit in august. With the exception of this year.

And the problem this year has always been the offensive line.

Man a lot of y’all almost had the score exactly right

Yes I put most of the blame on Frank- he had 7 fucking pro-bowlers last year and missed the playoffs; don't give a fuck about the offensive ranking, you have that level of talent and can't get in the playoffs, something is wrong with what you are doing. That said, I have also long been a loud critic of Ballard as well. To me, the two of them are the same thing as Grigs and Chuck, just on the kumbaya, let's all be great guys and hug and talk about love front. Ballard and Frank should have both been kicked out at the end of last year for the Wentz debacle. You make those type of leadership mistakes in corp America, you get a pink slip. People talk about how we should keep Ballard because he finds talent in the draft. Okay, so do roughly 22-25 other GM's in the NFL, so what's so great there?

I want the whole damn thing gone, all of it. Erase that this era even happened. Tear it down to the 2X4's and bleach it all. Hell at this point I would love to see Jim step back and give it to one of the girls, but I know that's not going to happen.

It did, they got Joe Burrow out of it.

I’m starting to wonder something - is this scheme too complex?

I’m reminded of back when Jim Mora was coach and Vic Fangio was the DC, and he was trying to run a complicated zone blitzing scheme, but the players just couldn’t execute it.
Polish wanted to fire Fangio and Mora wouldn’t have it, so he fired both of them. Mora was likely correct, there was nothing wrong with that scheme per se, those schemes have worked well elsewhere, and Fangio went on to have success elsewhere.
But when Dungy brought his very simple Tampa 2 defense to Indy, it worked out a lot a better, at least after a couple of seasons as they started drafting players fit for that scheme.

I think in Reich’s first year he kept his scheme simple but has gradually worked to add more and more wrinkles and complexity with each season. The problem though is the turnover at QB and receiver has not allowed for enough continuity for players to really understand the scheme and thus its just too complicated for them to execute properly.

Maybe I’m off base in this speculation but this offensive system is hot garbage as it is and we need to bring in someone who can coach to the strengths of the players we’ve got.

Separate criticism is the lack of toughness and meanness in this team. I’ve been beating the dead horse for awhile that ever since they fired DeGuglielmo in 2019, the o-line has regressed in terms of its toughness and attitude.

That was on display yesterday after Thibideaux did his little snow angle thing while Foles was writhing in pain. Did nobody on that line thing to at least get mad and in his face? They just stood there like punks.

Edit: I think this might also be a Reich thing with his mild—mannered Christian nonsense. We don’t need an asshole for a coach, but we need someone who does more than preach accountability but actually enforces it.

I don’t get why this shit is so difficult to understand. When you have shit OL play and shit QB play your offense is going to suck. It is really that fucking simple. Reich has a pretty damn good track record. He didn’t suddenly forget how to coach an offense. Teams didn’t suddenly figure him out. And his scheme didn’t suddenly become crazy simple or ridiculously complex. Players fucking matter. This idea that coaches just need to scheme better and they can overcome every major roster issue is bullshit. You can hide and scheme around some things, but you can’t hide or scheme around bad OL AND bad QB play. Especially an old immobile QB. It’s really not that complicated.

Do you think Reich’s complicated schemes confused the vet QB so much he forgot how to hold on to the damn football?

:D

i have been saying it since last year. and i don't know when it really started but we have no true leaders. our perceived "leaders" arent that at all. the locker room is busted and has been for awhile. we are starting to hear things come out about it.

i can't imagine ryan diem letting someone do that next to his qb. there is no fight in that oline. none. that said, even some of the "tougher" colts teams weren't tough. this organization just can't figure out how to build that into their
culture.

i would love to get rid of kelly and nelson. i don't think we can but i think these clowns are a major problem with this team. add leonard to that list.

ballard paid the wrong dudes

Yeah, that was eye opening the way they did absolutely nothing while Thibodeaux did snow angels for 20 seconds next to an obviously injured Foles.

Hell, he looked over at Foles and kept on doing it.

Pittman is literally the only one on that entire offense that has any fire at all.

Yea you’ve been saying that and it’s exactly right, Leonard complained when they didn’t re sign Walker because he was the true leader. Looking at this O line since Castonza left he was also the glue. Nelson or Leonard are not leaders while great players they’re not leaders they do not make people better and they do not like to leave their comfort zone or Nelson would’ve moved over to LT when that situation turned into a shit show. Luck made all these guys question football and their futures once they get an injury or have to have surgery they’re all ready to hang it up if they’ve gotten paid. Or even just hang it up (Willis) he set the tone for this entire regime and it’s gone to flat shit

I dont remember any complaints at the time. I was for it. Pre covid, the line was great. During last year, something fundamental changed, and with the turnover for this year, It has spread and I dont know if it can be fixed.

We can definitely dump Kelly. He would only be $4.5M in dead cap space for '23 w/ a savings of ~$8M if released in the offseason, and only $2.25M in dead cap space for the '23 cap if cut after June 1 (with the other $2.25M hitting the '24 cap).

We're stuck w/ Nelson and his huge contract through at least '24 if not '25.

Leonard through at least next season, but IMHO if he gets back to being the turnover machine he was pre-injury we shouldn't be cutting him.

i don't have a problem with how leonard plays. we need a real vocal leader on the defense because it can't be leonard. franklin may be able to fill that void

How do you guys know who is a leader in the locker room?

A better question is what happened to the leadership since the middle of last year?

I wonder if Kelly lost his passion for the game after his family's tragedy. If so, I find it hard to blame him too much, but on the other hand he should probably retire if that's the case.

Nelson is the bigger mystery to me. He went from an ass kicker to a guy getting his ass kicked on a consistent basis. I don't particularly want to get into a whole covid debate, but I do wonder if that's what messed him up for this long. On the other hand, maybe it's something as simple as if the rest of the OL is crap, he just can't do that much either. I honestly don't know enough about how an OL functions to know if that's the answer or not. Still, there have been times (like yesterday) where he was just getting bull rushed, and not looking like a HOF type player at all.

He's not getting his ass kicked on a consistent basis. Has he regressed, yes. Too many fans see a player lose one bad rep and the start to knock them. No player in the NFL wins every rep. I can go back to the 2019 season, when he go got manhandled by Hargrove of the Steelers and stepped on Brisset's foot and injured him for the rest of the season.

You could have a point. More that I'm noticing it more this year since the whole season is a massive shit show.

Don’t matter… that was once in a blue moon before now it’s every game atleast once. I never seen Larry Allen get owned like that ever, and that’s what we were told we were getting with Nelson