Originally Posted by JesusChrist (Post 64989)

perhaps it's time for another LSU RB

I would like to see them get Guice, Josh Jackson, and Jefferson

Originally Posted by testcase448 (Post 65095)

Luck is fine... but he will never be Manning. Well he might be ELI Manning
Can't have a long ball scheme with the shit we have now for damn sure. AND we can't run the ball with the shit we had. We could barely keep our QBs off IR. Oh wait...
Oddly enough the 90s Cowboys could do long ball just as easy as they shoved E. Smith up your ass down after down.
One doesn't preclude the other...

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 65107)

I get what you are saying, but it sounds like rooted more in your view that the team would have been better served to take a defensive player instead of an offensive lineman, rather that a criticism of the particular position that Nelson plays. What I was trying to get at was why a guard, in particular, can't ever be worthy of a high first round pick, since that seems to be a working assumption here.

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 (Post 65113)

I mean, they're kinda hand-in-hand, right? A guard shouldn't be the 6th overall pick because a playmaking position should be.

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 65116)

So that's it, then? It comes down to the fact that you simply don't believe a guard - any guard, no matter how good they are - can make a meaningful difference? Then I'm guessing you were not in favor of the Colts signing a high-end free agent guard either, right?

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 65116)

So that's it, then? It comes down to the fact that you simply don't believe a guard - any guard, no matter how good they are - can make a meaningful difference? Then I'm guessing you were not in favor of the Colts signing a high-end free agent guard either, right?

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 65108)

Thank you, I appreciate the effort and I do understand the reason why OTs are generally valued higher that guards, but my question was a little more specific: why was Nelson, in particular, a bad pick given the seeming consensus that he's a uniquely effective guard? And incidentally, what about the emergence of the three tech DTs like Aaron Donald that Chromeburn mentioned in a prior post – wouldn’t that merit reconsidering your lowly view of guards?

Lastly, I’ll add that your conclusions aren’t really borne out in the real world. If guards are merely unathletic, slow-footed OTs, then why does the guard profession exist independently in the first place? Wouldn’t all the bad OTs just move to guard? And why are the top guards now getting $10M+ while there are lots of out-of-work, slow-footed OTs who could be paid a lot less? Why doesn't Zach Banner just move to guard?

I’m really not trying to be overly critical, it’s just that I don’t think it’s as simple or cut-and-dried as you’re saying. The old chestnut that you can't take a guard high in the first round is often stated, but rarely explained other than to say that OTs are generally more important than Guards

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 65123)

The best way to counteract an athletic three technique is effective technique and strength. There's no edge to bend on the interior, so a technically sound guard will do best to just give ground to counteract the first step ability and use sound technique to effectively counteract their moves. Also, another reason a quality LT is important is that it allows you to assign a double team on the interior OL, thus reducing the importance of guard play further.

Obviously failed tackles are not the only options for guards, I never said that. I said that failed tackles expand the pool of available players that can be effective guards, which increases supply and lowers demand. The difference between those two statements is not subtle or easily missed, so it seems like you're trying to misconstrue my point to make it easier to argue against.

Guard is not a value position. It's because guards can't have a huge impact on the game. It really is fairly simple.

Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 65121)

Seems Ballard who gets paid decent money to do this has no clue. Guess we hired the wrong GM ? :eek:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 65128)

I'm not ready to go that far yet, but this has been a bad offseason thus far.

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 (Post 65368)

OK, I'm finally following Ballard today. He's not interested in what a guy did in college, really. He's going off athletic testing. Both DEs drafted in the 91st percentile. Which tells me he really likes his coaching staff to make these guys better pros than college players.

It's risky, but if they pan out, you have 2 tremendous edge athletes.

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 (Post 65368)

OK, I'm finally following Ballard today. He's not interested in what a guy did in college, really. He's going off athletic testing. Both DEs drafted in the 91st percentile. Which tells me he really likes his coaching staff to make these guys better pros than college players.

It's risky, but if they pan out, you have 2 tremendous edge athletes.

Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 65121)

Seems Ballard who gets paid decent money to do this has no clue. Guess we hired the wrong GM ? :eek:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65380)

Has happened before

Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 65382)

Dammy that you? :cool:

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65385)

I am shocked how shitty this draft has been. The entire offseason really.

Luck will truly have to carry this team. All the draft picks and money and pretty much zero talent added. Just dudes

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65385)

I am shocked how shitty this draft has been. The entire offseason really.

Luck will truly have to carry this team. All the draft picks and money and pretty much zero talent added. Just dudes

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 65388)

All 5 guys drafted so far will start next year. Hopefully at least 4 will work out.

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 65410)

It's odd how you can comment after the draft on "dudes" but have no input on any of players before the draft.

Maybe you could enlighten us as to who the players who you consider not just "dudes"?

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65431)

Landry and Jackson were prime picks. Pretty sure I said that before the 2nd round started.

I find it odd how everyone likes these dudes but nobody wanted them 24 hours ago

Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 (Post 64852)

I just can't get with an OG at 6.

Look, Nelson may well be a very good player. May be an All-Pro. There's no sure thing at any position, OL included (cough Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack cough), so I won't say for sure. I won't be surprised if he's very good.

But let's say Nelson is amazing and the RG/RT situation is still Slauson/Haeg or something like that. Luck is still in mortal danger, and defenses will still shut down your run game because it will be so damn easy to load up on the left side. Does a great OG really have any impact, in that situation?

Let's say Reich's scheme emphasizes quick passing decisions. Isn't an OG's impact neutralized in that situation?

I guess I just look at a lottery OG as a total luxury pick in today's NFL. Is the difference between Nelson and Hernandez or Wynn, for instance, really that big? Is Nelson really going to make more plays for the Colts than a Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds?

The only way you can sell me on an OG that high for the Colts is by telling me this is a cultural statement and trendsetter, and even that feels a bit elusive as a justification.

I still think Day 2 is set up to go very well, and again, none of this is saying Nelson will be a bad player. But I am just philosophically opposed to an OG at 6 the same way many of you are opposed to a RB at 6.

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 64869)

You have to be shitting me. After all the bitching on this board about Luck being killed. About the running backs having zero holes about how soft this team is the complaint is that we draft the best offensive lineman, maybe the best player in the draft but he is a guard? He seems to provide dominance at a position we haven’t dominated in ever. He also provides a locker room and game day nastiness that we desperately need Ballard is building thru the trenches. He said he would and he is sticking to his philosophy. I love the direction he is taking this team. Love the pick.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 65434)

Everyone has their favorite players to fill roles. Ballard filled the right roles, we just have to hope he did it with the right players.

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65440)

Ballard passed on bpa every chance he got today

Originally Posted by Gimmick (Post 65437)

Stop drunk posting. For the first time in decades, the Colts are finally serious about winning the LOS. Lots of high draft picks on OL and DL now. And you're complaining?

You guys are clueless. Great picks from Ballard so far. Luck needs protection.

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65431)

Landry and Jackson were prime picks. Pretty sure I said that before the 2nd round started.

I find it odd how everyone likes these dudes but nobody wanted them 24 hours ago

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 65468)

My most trusted source for NLF Draft Player rankings is NFL Draft Scout.

Here are their rankings:

Quenton Nelson: OG Rank 1, Overall Rank 5, Round 1
Darius Leonard: OLB Rank 7, Overall Rank 77, Round 2-3
Braden Smith: OG Rank 5, Overall Rank 74, Round 2-3
Kemoko Turay: DE Rank 5, Overall Rank 58, Round 2
TyQuan Lewis: DE Rank 12, Overall Rank 129, Round 4

So other than Lewis, each player was pick near where NFL Draft Scout had them ranked.

I too liked Landry and Josh Jackson and thought, that they were terrific values where they were chosen. But I can't say I'm unhappy with the picks. I absolutely love the Darius Leonard pick.

I'm still gonna trust in Ballard until I see how these guys play.

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 65468)

My most trusted source for NLF Draft Player rankings is NFL Draft Scout.

Here are their rankings:

Quenton Nelson: OG Rank 1, Overall Rank 5, Round 1
Darius Leonard: OLB Rank 7, Overall Rank 77, Round 2-3
Braden Smith: OG Rank 5, Overall Rank 74, Round 2-3
Kemoko Turay: DE Rank 5, Overall Rank 58, Round 2
TyQuan Lewis: DE Rank 12, Overall Rank 129, Round 4

So other than Lewis, each player was pick near where NFL Draft Scout had them ranked.

I too liked Landry and Josh Jackson and thought, that they were terrific values where they were chosen. But I can't say I'm unhappy with the picks. I absolutely love the Darius Leonard pick.

I'm still gonna trust in Ballard until I see how these guys play.

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65470)

Overall 77 but picked 37

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65470)

Overall 77 but picked 37

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 65478)

Ballard said in his presser that Leonard would have come off the board, if he didn't take him at 37.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 65473)

Remember when Kelvin Hayden was a 5th rounder Polian picked in Round 2? That worked out pretty well.

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 65478)

Ballard said in his presser that Leonard would have come off the board, if he didn't take him at 37.

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 65515)

Remember tj green

That didn’t

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 65813)

Let's hope Ballard is more Polian than Grigson, then.