No way, Ballards best picks have been 2nd rounders

I think you're wrong on Pierce, he was open deep a lot, problem was Minshew
couldn't get him the ball !!

Jets just watched Brock Bowers at his private workout and now want to trade down. Hmm

The rumor was that the Jets were thinking about drafting an OT - that they could trade down a little (and pick up additional draft capital) and still snag a decent tackle in this draft class.

Indeed he was. Pierce ran more 9 routes than anybody in the NFL and he was open on many of them. Richardson will get him the ball.

They’re having Bowers in for a private workout. Wonder what they’re thinking. I don’t be like that Bowers didn’t test at all during his private workout. If I’m going to downs a top 10 pick on TE, I want C all his workout numbers.

Minshew didn't help, but for someone who was supposedly open all of the time like you guys claim he was Pierce sure seemed to have a CB draped all over him most of the time when he was thrown the ball. Even w/ AR like on Pierce's dropped TD pass in week 1. At any rate IMO he hasn't shown enough for us to pass on someone like BTJ.

Although if Bowers is there I'm hoping we take him.

If you have to wait for the ball to get to you, I don't care how fast you are, the CB's will catch up to you !! I'm hoping for either Verse or Latu !!!

Pierce wasn't getting open w/ AR at QB either. Also, I read in an Indystar article that stated the Cols aren't confident that he'll be able to develop into much more than what he is. I tried to find the article to post the link, but it's over a month old and having trouble finding it. Will try again when I have some more time on my hands.

Understand your desire to draft a pass rusher, and we could use it. I do worry about Verse though as his production doesn't match his ability. Which actually makes him a Ballard type pick.

Supposedly if you want a good tackle you will have to take one in the first round. The drop-off once you get past the good ones is substantial. Might force a lot of team's hands which is, of course, good for us.

Early on they were having AR throw fast and short. You can see it in his completion shart. I think they opened up a little in that last game. We will see this year. But Piece did get open at times and Minshew had either progressed past him or was rushing the play. If he did see him he would throw it late often allowing the CB to catch up. I was at a game and saw it for myself and you can see it on the all-22. Also to note, the separation stat everyone throws out is only on targets. They don't keep track if he is open and the QB doesn't go his way.

Now, this could be separate from them believing he won't be anymore than a deep threat. He has improved in his deep game, he stacks corners pretty well now. But if they don't think he can develop the other parts of his game that is something else. I should note that 23 seems to be a big age for WR's for some reason. They tend to improve around then so we should see here soon.

Don't throw in the towel on Pierce yet. Healthy AR will give us a better read on him. The separation and ADOT stats make you hopeful that a true QB1 can get him the ball.

But, really... it won't be apples-to-apples. Defenses will obviously not gameplan us the same was as they did with Minshew. That could easily mean that Pierce doesn't get those same open looks downfield because AR can actually burn them.

But that would also mean a trickle-down effect for the rest of the field loosening up. Everybody benefits if AR can take advantage. Pierce included.

[QUOTE=Chromeburn;295912]Early on they were having AR throw fast and short. You can see it in his completion shart.

You might want to throw in the towel if he has a completion shart, like Chrome said.

I'm not saying we should completely give up on him. I'm just no so sure he'll end up being a legit WR2. And I definitely don't think we should pass on drafting a WR or TE b/c of him. Even if Pierce makes a jump this year we still need more weapons for AR.

Regardless of Pierce, I'd be surprised if they don't take a WR in this class.

As for Rd1... Bowers is probably the best football player that may still be available at #15, so if he's there take him. If not, maybe Thomas at WR but I would think they probably like a defender better in that spot if they don't trade down (which I lean towards).

Plus, it seems like a bunch of 2nd-round WR's will be available.

After listening to the Ballard press conference I definitely think they are going pass catcher first. If Bowers is there I think they take him. If any of the top three WRs drop I see them moving up a few spots if they get close. If not… I see them trading back a little to get picks and taking BTj or Worthy. Some oline in the middle rounds and probably throw a DE in there maybe the second. A athletic CB in later rounds also.

Agree we take a WR at some point if not 2, as at the very least we need more depth at WR.

I agree on Bowers. If he's still there at 15 he's likely the BPA so makes picking him seem like a no brainer. If Bowers is gone and we have a defensive player rated much higher than BTJ, then I suppose we take the D player. But if their grades are comparable then I'd like to see us take BTJ. As I said earlier, giving AR more weapons to help w/ his development should be a priority.

You're probably right about trading down. Depends on how things shake out ahead of us, but at this point I'm not a fan of it. If there's a true difference maker at 15 then just take him. Depending on the situation I'd like to see us move up, especially if one of the top 3 WRs drops to within trade up range for us. Although that would almost certainly be Odunze, and both BTJ and AD Mitchell have higher RAS scores so guessing Ballard may have both of them ranked just as high or higher as it is. Plus we all know that Ballard won't trade up.

Trade up? For talent?!? Especially when there are so many wonderful athletes with amazing RAS scores?!?!?!?! Not on Ballard's watch!!!

Ballard has traded up in the past so it is possible. Not likely, but possible.

But I think the Colts draft board will have to reflect that the targeted prospect is worth going up and getting.

And if Ballard moves up - he will most certainly try to recoup some extra picks later in the draft through other trades.

So, a different take on the earlier trade proposal with the Jets:


Jets trade:

1.10

Colts trade:

1.15
3.82
2025 3rd Round Pick


So the Colts will keep their mid-2nd Round Pick this year and not trade it to the Jets....only to then trade down from there and swap it for a late 2nd Round Pick and late 3rd Round Pick.

So, in the end, the Colts will move up a little in the first round but move back 10 - 15 spots each in Round 2 and Round 3. (and worry about recouping the 2025 3rd Round pick next year)

If we take a receiver in the 1st or 2nd round alongside Pittman, Downs, Pierce and Dulin, do we really need to draft a 6th guy? In the 7th round maybe, but what are the chances of that guy actually turning into anything? Personally i would far rather take a flyer on an offensive lineman where you are keeping 9 or 10 guys and they will make a difference.

If we don't come away with a CB in the first two rounds, I will be highly disappointed.

Never say never, but it's extremely unlikely. In his 7 drafts w/ the Colts Ballard has moved up 4 times. 2 of them where he had to give up minimal draft capital to move up 3 spots in/into the 2nd round (JT and Lewis trades), and 2 more where mid round picks were involved (Willis and Cross). For good or for bad I really doubt Ballard will ever give up the draft capital it takes to move up in the 1st round.

Worth it IMO if we can get one of the elite WRs or if it looks like Bowers will be gone by the time we draft.

Yeah, if we take a WR in the 1st or 2nd then mentioned 2nd WR would have to be a later round pick. Remember Dulin is coming off an ACL tear so could very well start the season on the PUP. Also, since Dulin is such a good STer it doesn't kill us to keep 6 WRs, especially if said late round draftee can play STs as well. With that being said if the BPAs on day 3 are all at other positions then we should be all means draft them.

Pre-draft press conference seems to indicate they want to trade down.

It appears to be a plentiful year for both CB and WR. Given that in a typical year, CB is the 3rd most selected position and WR is the 5th, I'm hoping they go CB first round and WR in the second. The adage "best player available" should actually be "best player available in a needed position".

Even without Ballard's comments it's a pretty good assumption. Trading down is fine I guess as long as Bowers is drafted before us and we still get (preferably) BTJ or someone like Latu, or one of the top CBs. What I really don't want to see us do is trade down multiple times and end up drafting a bunch of good, but not great guys. We have plenty of good players on the roster already. What we need are true difference makers.

I wouldn't hold my breath. Ballard's comments on our CB group are very similar to what he said about the OL last year. To give him credit, he was right about the OL.

In the early rounds I mostly agree and Ballard seems to follow this which is why we trade down so often. For day 3 picks though I think you should just go w/ the BPA; at least for rounds 5-7. Those are such a crap shoot anyway that you really shouldn't handcuff yourself.

Interesting. I finished listening to it earlier and I came away feeling less confident they'd go for a WR at #15/trade up. I think Bowers would be undeniable if he somehow falls to us. But besides that, he said a few things...

A.) He mentioned WR and OL specifically as having great depth in this class - suggests to me that he can land a solid WR + pick(s) with a trade-back.

B.) He said it wasn't a "weak" defensive class, but it's heavy offense, and they have 19-21 1st round grades - suggests to me that spending the #15 overall on a top-3 defender (according to their board) would be a priority over a top-5 WR.

C.) As he's done before, he emphasized that protection over skill positions (that whole thing about Andrew Luck being able to get the ball to anybody, he just needs to not die) - suggests he still doesn't feel pressed to reach on a WR.

I do like the idea of Brian Thomas... I'm not sure I like it better than Cooper DeJean/Quinyon Mitchell unless it's slight trade-back where we could still snag him + a pick.

I refrained from actually voting until now.

I still want to see them trade up. It doesn't have to be Harrison, but if one of these playmakers is on the board - I want them.

It's not a hill I'll die on. If they choose to trade down, so be it. I just want a difference maker out of this draft, desperately. I don't care what position.

In the second I think Max Melton and TJ Tampa are the only two guys. Maybe Cam Hart depending how far he has risen. After that it’s later round guy that fit their model.

That's why the Quinyon Mitchell/R2 WR (My personal choice is Ricky Pearsall) combo is, in my opinion, the best option unless they're going to trade up for someone like Rome Odunze if he falls to 8 or 9 overall. The drop from BTJ to Pearsall is not that much in my opinion, whereas the drop from Mitchell to Tampa or Melton is a cliff.

That's what I'm thinking. Bowers > Top CB > Trade Down WR + Pick.

I'm curious what you guys think about DeJean. Mitchell just jumps out like a perfect fit for us and I'd be super excited with him. He's like classic top-shelf CB.

But I've also been watching/reading more of DeJean lately... I was under the impression he was an iffy prospect because I had read people suggesting he move to safety.

No way. Looks like they played off a lot at Iowa (like Bradley will call), and he looks to have some tremendous instinct/savvy. He has really good ball skills and is a really good return man (new kickoff rules). He also looks like the best tackling DB.

Athletically, he's a stud. He doesn't have the top-end speed of Mitchell (4.33), but coming off a broken leg he posted a 4.43. And every other test was virtually equal, if not better, than Mitchell's.

I'm not saying I'd necessarily take him over Mitchell, but he's extremely intriguing to me.

I saw somebody say that picking Cooper DeJean would be like getting socks for a holiday, you know it will be practical and useful, but you were hoping for more.

And that kind of sums up how I'd feel about drafting Cooper DeJean.

I would like 1 of Verse, Turner or Latu. If they draft one of them, I won't give a Rats ass what else they do. It's about time Ballard drafts a pass rusher instead of making feeble attempts to sign one in free agency !!!! JMHO

They drafted Paye

He never was, or never will be, an elite pass rusher.

I could stomach this as well.

I like the idea of Pearsall. Familiarity with Richardson, diverse skill set, he looks the part, and he can serve as competition to Pierce (and even Downs to some extent) to continue to push development.

I like a lot about Mitchell. He sounds like a Ballard guy as well, measurable wise. IIRC he looked pretty good blitzing out of the nickel as well.

Problem is we don’t know if anyone from this draft will be either

Truly elite guys tend to go top 5

o


Ask me about 6 years from now, and I'll tell you who I would have wanted the Colts to have drafted with their #15 pick.

o

And Dayo who I think is pretty disruptive. Remember these guys go on a rotation. It’s not like Freeney out there for 60 snaps. Still never hurts to have another pass rusher.

I guess other teams are saying the Colts are looking to trade up. For shits, assume that's the case...

Who would it be for? Worried Mitchell won't be there? Actually trying to get a top WR? Dallas Turner too much of a freak to pass?

Watch them go OL and kill thousands of fans.

If they're trading up, I'd imagine it's to 8 at the highest (because to get 8 and 109 would cost 15 and 46 on the TVC), and it would almost have to be for the one of Odunze or Nabers that falls. I could also see a smaller trade up (to say 11 or 12, which would cost 15 and 82 according to TVC) for Bowers.