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AlwaysSunnyinIndy 09-11-2023 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc (Post 274003)
6. Franklin might be the best player on defense not named Buckner.


Zaire had such a great game that he "randomly" got selected for a drug test today.

ukcolt 09-11-2023 03:12 PM

Do we know the extent of the injuries for Hull and Ogletree.

Also was it just me, or did Kylen Granson look like he was a much bigger dude yesterday?

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 09-11-2023 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcolt (Post 274176)
Do we know the extent of the injuries for Hull and Ogletree.


In today's press conference, Steichen said that they are still evaluating Hull's knee injury but stated that he could miss some time.

Olgetree will have to go through the steps of the concussion protocol.

ChoppedWood 09-11-2023 04:14 PM

Another take away- AR in the no huddle= GOOD.

He looked completely in command of the offense. Very early but he looked at ease in the more free-flowing read and react end of game setting- including the awesome blasting through a wall to get the 1st down (did he just say fuck it to the wristband play sheet at one point and toss it away?).

Again, long way to go, but one of the things that made Peyton and to some degree Luck so damn good was rapid fire get to the line and make plays activity. Rivers was meh at it, Wentz was atrocious at it and well Ryan never seemed to be in a position to do it.

Racehorse 09-11-2023 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274141)
Pass rush win rate among edge defenders. Weird don’t see Josh Allen on there.

https://i.ibb.co/McG2dCN/IMG-2947.jpg

Paye was a guy that I thought could make the leap this year. Dayo is another one. Dayo didn't get too many plays yesterday that made any impact. I hope he does soon.

YDFL Commish 09-11-2023 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 274188)
Another take away- AR in the no huddle= GOOD.

(did he just say fuck it to the wristband play sheet at one point and toss it away?).
.

Yes he did!

YDFL Commish 09-11-2023 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlwaysSunnyinIndy (Post 274166)
Zaire had such a great game that he "randomly" got selected for a drug test today.

He had 18 tackles and said that he left plays on the field? Those were 18 meaningful tackles too. Not the stat padding 8yd down the field shit that statheads think are so great.

ukcolt 09-11-2023 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 274200)
Yes he did!

The paper/plastic, came adrift of his plastic arm thing for the play sheet. You could see him trying to put it back into the wallet thing, but then thought fuck it, this is too difficult and threw it to the floor, on the next play he ripped the whole thing off his arm. It was not a defiant act, was an equipment failure from what i saw when watching.

ChaosTheory 09-11-2023 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlwaysSunnyinIndy (Post 274185)
In today's press conference, Steichen said that they are still evaluating Hull's knee injury but stated that he could miss some time.

Olgetree will have to go through the steps of the concussion protocol.

Speaking of the presser... these reporters are going to turn on Steichen hard at some point, watch. He is Belichick-esque in that he doesn't answer a goddamn thing for the most part.

One of them says, "What does that mean specifically?"

Steichen says, "Just everything, you know what I mean?". Haha.

ChaosTheory 09-11-2023 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 274203)
He had 18 tackles and said that he left plays on the field? Those were 18 meaningful tackles too. Not the stat padding 8yd down the field shit that statheads think are so great.

I can't wait for the 22 tape to come out and he's a big reason why. Dude was a fucking missile all day.

Chromeburn 09-11-2023 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcolt (Post 274176)
Do we know the extent of the injuries for Hull and Ogletree.

Also was it just me, or did Kylen Granson look like he was a much bigger dude yesterday?

Per NextGen Stats, Kylen Granson averaged 4.6 yards of separation on his targets.

This ranked 4th amongst 77 qualifying (3+ targets) players for week 1.

YDFL Commish 09-11-2023 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 274207)
Speaking of the presser... these reporters are going to turn on Steichen hard at some point, watch. He is Belichick-esque in that he doesn't answer a goddamn thing for the most part.

One of them says, "What does that mean specifically?"

Steichen says, "Just everything, you know what I mean?". Haha.

Actually I like that about Steichen. Fucking Reich gave away way too much information. Carolina will regret that hire.

Chromeburn 09-12-2023 03:42 PM

DTs DeForest Buckner (92.5) & Grover Stewart (90.2) ranked 1st and 3rd, respectively, among all DTs

LBs EJ Speed (94.8) & Zaire Franklin (92.2) rated as having the two best LB performances

Racehorse 09-12-2023 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274320)
DTs DeForest Buckner (92.5) & Grover Stewart (90.2) ranked 1st and 3rd, respectively, among all DTs

LBs EJ Speed (94.8) & Zaire Franklin (92.2) rated as having the two best LB performances

How did they grade Kwity?

IndyNorm 09-12-2023 07:46 PM

Late to the game, but here are my thoughts after a couple of days:

- AR looked better than I thought he would. Obviously still has a long way to go and needs to learn to not play hero ball w/ the run game, but he looked not overwhelmed at all and way more comfortable than I thought he would.
- I read in Atkins' "10 Thoughts" article that Downs was wide open a couple of times during the O's dry stretch and AR overlooked him. Not a surprise this happened w/ a rookie. I'm sure this will stand out on film and that AR will learn from this.
- OL's pass blocking was ok, but their run blocking was turrible. I saw a couple of you guys' commented some of that is due to the change in blocking schemes. Hope that's the case.
- The D played great for the most part with the DL looking about as good as they had in a long time. Just too much time on the field and put into too many bad spots by the O.
- Even though Steichen probably needs to dial it down, the 4th down decisions aren't as bad as you guys are saying. At least until at the end of the game. My thoughts:

- The first one was 4th and less than a yard. I think the bigger mistake was not asking for a measurement and review b/c we got screwed on the spot on the previous play. Also, I think Steichen may have learned his lesson that our OL is nowhere near as good as Philly's.
- The next 2 times were both from Jax 42, so out of FG range and really prime 4th down territory from a field position standpoint. With how well our D was playing in the 2nd half I really think we should have punted on the 3rd 4th down attempt.
- The final 2 were weird. We're down 10, only have 2 TOs, and it's under 2 mins. So we needed 2 scores and an onside kick recovery to tie/win. Probably makes more sense to kick the FG there (especially the 2nd time). Also, Steichen should have used his TOs to preserve some clock and get the O on the same page rather than have us rushing things.

JAFF 09-12-2023 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 274344)
How did they grade Kwity?

He had a very good day, they need two on him

Ironshaft 09-13-2023 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IndyNorm (Post 274361)
- The final 2 were weird. We're down 10, only have 2 TOs, and it's under 2 mins. So we needed 2 scores and an onside kick recovery to tie/win. Probably makes more sense to kick the FG there (especially the 2nd time). Also, Steichen should have used his TOs to preserve some clock and get the O on the same page rather than have us rushing things.

Rookie head coach in his first every game at the NFL level.

Hopefully, he will learn about clock management.

ChaosTheory 09-13-2023 02:18 PM

4 Attachment(s)
For any fellow film nerds. I never remember the best way to include images, hopefully the attachments show up, they look smaller. Can someone let me know?

Very interesting 22 tape so far. One thing I wanted to point out, is that there are plenty of opportunities missed with AR's reads that are exciting because they'll improve once things slow down for him. Some big running lanes he opted out of as well.

This example stuck with me early. It's just a routine RO from the second drive that is interesting to me for several reasons...

Image 1: Colts are 2x2, Jags are pretty basic alignment with Josh Allen lined up over Pierce in the slot.

Image 2: Off AR's cadence, Allen bumps down to rush, creating a 6-on-7 for our blockers. The safety, Cisco, drops down and follows Downs as he motions inside. CB starts backing off to play his deep half.

Image 3: Play starts, Plug backer moves to Allen's gap as Allen crashes and stones MAC's block. Pierce runs a 5yd hitch. Safety chases Downs and whizzes past Pierce. CB keeps dropping. AR hands off.

Image 4: O-Line washes everyone down, Jackson hits the hole between Smith and pulling MAC... but MAC gets blown up by Allen so Jackson barely squeezes through before Allen gets an arm on him and jumps on his back. 3yds, not terrible, could've been better if MAC made the block and/or if Moss (or Taylor) was in to explode through Allen's arms.

Meanwhile, the more interesting part is, with all that attention in the box, Pierce and Downs are essentially 2-on-1 vs. the safety who is manned on Downs. Downs does a quick out and Pierce does a quick hitch. By the time AR does his follow through fake, Cisco is screaming past Pierce towards Downs and the CB is 10 yards away from Pierce who has all that room. Probably an easy first down at minimum.

It's not that AR made a bad read, especially if MAC doesn't get blown up or if Moss/Taylor were running... But as the game slows down for him, I'm hoping he recognizes stuff like this and is assertive enough to keep the ball and make the throw rather than defer to the handoff which he seemed to do a lot, especially later in the game.

Chromeburn 09-13-2023 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 274344)
How did they grade Kwity?

74.1 for Kwity

I thought a saw a grade of Josh Downs in the 80's but I can't find it now. In the preseason they gave him an 87.

Brylok 09-13-2023 04:09 PM

Mike Strachan signed with Panthers practice squad.

Chromeburn 09-13-2023 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 274426)
Mike Strachan signed with Panthers practice squad.

Smart move, he fits Reich's model for a WR. More likely to see the field there.

Chromeburn 09-13-2023 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 274410)
For any fellow film nerds. I never remember the best way to include images, hopefully the attachments show up, they look smaller. Can someone let me know?

Very interesting 22 tape so far. One thing I wanted to point out, is that there are plenty of opportunities missed with AR's reads that are exciting because they'll improve once things slow down for him. Some big running lanes he opted out of as well.

This example stuck with me early. It's just a routine RO from the second drive that is interesting to me for several reasons...

Image 1: Colts are 2x2, Jags are pretty basic alignment with Josh Allen lined up over Pierce in the slot.

Image 2: Off AR's cadence, Allen bumps down to rush, creating a 6-on-7 for our blockers. The safety, Cisco, drops down and follows Downs as he motions inside. CB starts backing off to play his deep half.

Image 3: Play starts, Plug backer moves to Allen's gap as Allen crashes and stones MAC's block. Pierce runs a 5yd hitch. Safety chases Downs and whizzes past Pierce. CB keeps dropping. AR hands off.

Image 4: O-Line washes everyone down, Jackson hits the hole between Smith and pulling MAC... but MAC gets blown up by Allen so Jackson barely squeezes through before Allen gets an arm on him and jumps on his back. 3yds, not terrible, could've been better if MAC made the block and/or if Moss (or Taylor) was in to explode through Allen's arms.

Meanwhile, the more interesting part is, with all that attention in the box, Pierce and Downs are essentially 2-on-1 vs. the safety who is manned on Downs. Downs does a quick out and Pierce does a quick hitch. By the time AR does his follow through fake, Cisco is screaming past Pierce towards Downs and the CB is 10 yards away from Pierce who has all that room. Probably an easy first down at minimum.

It's not that AR made a bad read, especially if MAC doesn't get blown up or if Moss/Taylor were running... But as the game slows down for him, I'm hoping he recognizes stuff like this and is assertive enough to keep the ball and make the throw rather than defer to the handoff which he seemed to do a lot, especially later in the game.

Owen did a little bit on AR not following his blocks on the designed QB runs. Thats a typical rookie move, he was running to daylight, but the correct path was following his blocks bc the holes are smaller in the NFL.

https://twitter.com/colts_law/status...871943241?s=46

Chromeburn 09-13-2023 04:43 PM

Another narrative I've noticed this week.

Calvin Ridley
REC YDS AVG TD LONG TGTS
8 101 12.6 1 29 11

Michael Pittman Jr
REC YDS AVG TD LONG TGTS
8 97 12.1 1 39 11


National Media - "OMG Calvin Ridley is back he is a true number one for Trevor Lawrence."
Colts fans - "MPJ is a number two, someone needs to get him a number one receiver."

IndyNorm 09-13-2023 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ironshaft (Post 274377)
Rookie head coach in his first every game at the NFL level.

Hopefully, he will learn about clock management.

No doubt. Streichen seems like a smart guy, so I'm sure he'll tighten that up.

Chromeburn 09-13-2023 09:00 PM

Pass protection this week across all teams.

https://i.ibb.co/5kfwHPw/IMG-2958.jpg

Mr. Session 09-14-2023 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274439)
Another narrative I've noticed this week.

Calvin Ridley
REC YDS AVG TD LONG TGTS
8 101 12.6 1 29 11

Michael Pittman Jr
REC YDS AVG TD LONG TGTS
8 97 12.1 1 39 11


National Media - "OMG Calvin Ridley is back he is a true number one for Trevor Lawrence."
Colts fans - "MPJ is a number two, someone needs to get him a number one receiver."

After all this shit with Taylor, my heart is really pulling for Pitt.

I hope that kid can get PAID. I pray he continues putting up stat lines like this.

Ridley was dominant in that first half though.

ukcolt 09-14-2023 09:33 AM

I like Pittman, but he isn't a dynamic player, who oppositions fear. He will get yards, but they are often the yards a defense is happy to give up and move on to the next play.

ChaosTheory 09-14-2023 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcolt (Post 274489)
I like Pittman, but he isn't a dynamic player, who oppositions fear. He will get yards, but they are often the yards a defense is happy to give up and move on to the next play.

I think defenses might disagree with you about him being dynamic when they watch film of a WR screen on 2nd and 28 go for a 39-yard touchdown.

Pittman has been victim to our QB situation since he got here. He can play.

Mr. Session 09-14-2023 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory (Post 274490)
I think defenses might disagree with you about him being dynamic when they watch film of a WR screen on 2nd and 28 go for a 39-yard touchdown.

Pittman has been victim to our QB situation since he got here. He can play.

They really need both Pittman and Pierce to be better in jump ball scenarios. Both of them have been underwhelming in that regard.

Pittman runs hard but those are just the RB genetics at play. We do need more out of him and I am pulling for him to show he can do more within this context.

Chromeburn 09-14-2023 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Session (Post 274481)
After all this shit with Taylor, my heart is really pulling for Pitt.

I hope that kid can get PAID. I pray he continues putting up stat lines like this.

Ridley was dominant in that first half though.

And got shutdown in the second half.

People would talk about Pittman if we had won. But I think he goes unappreciated because he’s had a revolving door at QB and it undermines his performance on the stat sheet and in media attention. Go back and look at the ton of receivers taken in that class and he’s one of the top performers despite his situation at QB.

Chromeburn 09-14-2023 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ukcolt (Post 274489)
I like Pittman, but he isn't a dynamic player, who oppositions fear. He will get yards, but they are often the yards a defense is happy to give up and move on to the next play.

What’s the definition of a dynamic player. I see this pop up and no one can define it because there is no standard for it. It’s a nebulous statement that based on subjectivity. Is Mike Evans dynamic? Is Keenan Allen dynamic? Is AJ Brown dynamic? He was 10th in receptions despite the absolute shitshow at QB last year and had more catches than all those guys.

I think Colt fans compare him to Reggie and Marv, hof receivers, and think he doesn’t measure up. But he doesn’t have Manning throwing to him and you should judge him against contemporary peers, not past hof receivers from the team. Everyone in the league except for a few guys wouldn’t measure up.

ChoppedWood 09-14-2023 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274501)
What’s the definition of a dynamic player. I see this pop up and no one can define it because there is no standard for it. It’s a nebulous statement that based on subjectivity. Is Mike Evans dynamic? Is Keenan Allen dynamic? Is AJ Brown dynamic? He was 10th in receptions despite the absolute shitshow at QB last year and had more catches than all those guys.

I think Colt fans compare him to Reggie and Marv, hof receivers, and think he doesn’t measure up. But he doesn’t have Manning throwing to him and you should judge him against contemporary peers, not past hof receivers from the team. Everyone in the league except for a few guys wouldn’t measure up.

He does not have the quicks to create separation at the line and does not have the straight line speed to kill a defender on a streak and his hands are "good" not great. A # 1, has all three of those things in one profile.

Fantastic possession guy and a tough after the catch runner, but he is not a dynamic play maker at the WR position that has a special quality that has to be gamed for. i.e. Hill, Adams, Metcalf, even a guy like Kupp.

We do not have such a weapon, haven't had one since TY and that's a disgrace that Ballard somehow manages to escape. Again, another area where he is not good at building the position.

Chromeburn 09-14-2023 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 274502)
He does not have the quicks to create separation at the line and does not have the straight line speed to kill a defender on a streak and his hands are "good" not great. A # 1, has all three of those things in one profile.

Fantastic possession guy and a tough after the catch runner, but he is not a dynamic play maker at the WR position that has a special quality that has to be gamed for. i.e. Hill, Adams, Metcalf, even a guy like Kupp.

We do not have such a weapon, haven't had one since TY and that's a disgrace that Ballard somehow manages to escape. Again, another area where he is not good at building the position.

So by your definition how many number 1 receivers are there in the NFL? Can you show me this list of number 1's and where Pittman ranks on that?

ChoppedWood 09-14-2023 03:56 PM

This is roughly how I view the NFL WR room. There are 5 teams that have 2 players catching balls that I think are better than our 1st option= Pittman. In terms of "No. 1's". I think this list starts moving from that tier to a 2nd tier at right around 15. So basically half the teams in the NFL IMO have that year in / year out 1st Pro Bowl starter level player. Don't misread this, I like Pittman and think he is good for the team, but to me, he is not in that mode of game changer that you just go into the game knowing it's gonna be a long day in the office trying to keep up with him. Again, I don't think we've had that since TY and I just don't think Ballard understands just how necessary that player is in today's NFL.


No 1 WR's Player Team
1 Jefferson Vikes
2 Hill Phins
3 Chase Bengals
4 Metcalf Hawks
5 Wilson Jets
6 Higgins Bengals
7 Adams Raiders
8 Brown Eagles
9 Lamb Cowboys
10 Diggs Bills
11 Kupp Rams
12 Givens Steelers
13 Ridley Jags
14 McLaurin Commanders
15 Marquis Brown Lions
16 Kelce Chiefs
17 Waddle Fins
18 Smith Eagles
19 Olave Saints
20 Cooper Cleveland
21 Evans Bucs
22 Smith-Njgba Hawks
23 Moore Bears
24 Debo 49ers
25 Aiyuk 49ers
26 Kittle 49ers
27 Zay Flowers Ravens
28 Pittman Colts
29 Allen Chargers
30 Hopkins Texans

Chromeburn 09-14-2023 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 274532)
This is roughly how I view the NFL WR room. There are 5 teams that have 2 players catching balls that I think are better than our 1st option= Pittman. In terms of "No. 1's". I think this list starts moving from that tier to a 2nd tier at right around 15. So basically half the teams in the NFL IMO have that year in / year out 1st Pro Bowl starter level player. Don't misread this, I like Pittman and think he is good for the team, but to me, he is not in that mode of game changer that you just go into the game knowing it's gonna be a long day in the office trying to keep up with him. Again, I don't think we've had that since TY and I just don't think Ballard understands just how necessary that player is in today's NFL.


No 1 WR's Player Team
1 Jefferson Vikes
2 Hill Phins
3 Chase Bengals
4 Metcalf Hawks
5 Wilson Jets
6 Higgins Bengals
7 Adams Raiders
8 Brown Eagles
9 Lamb Cowboys
10 Diggs Bills
11 Kupp Rams
12 Givens Steelers
13 Ridley Jags
14 McLaurin Commanders
15 Marquis Brown Lions
16 Kelce Chiefs
17 Waddle Fins
18 Smith Eagles
19 Olave Saints
20 Cooper Cleveland
21 Evans Bucs
22 Smith-Njgba Hawks
23 Moore Bears
24 Debo 49ers
25 Aiyuk 49ers
26 Kittle 49ers
27 Zay Flowers Ravens
28 Pittman Colts
29 Allen Chargers
30 Hopkins Texans


Do you have data to back this up, otherwise its just your opinion. I assumed you were going to list separation or whatever data you are ranking these guys by. That's what I'm asking for, data to backup your opinions. And you have TE's in there.

Where does the number one status end, because you have Pittman 28th?

ChoppedWood 09-14-2023 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274533)
Do you have data to back that up, otherwise its just your opinion. I assumed you were going to list separation or whatever evidence you are ranking these guys by. That's what I'm asking for, data to backup your opinions. And you have TE's in there.

No, I don't have statistical evidence of such, and yes, as I stated IMO this is the NFL's list of the best, and yes there are TE's in there because there are TE's that I think are more in the mode of a # 1 guy, than the one we have as the # 1.

Would you take him over:
Hill or Waddle
Chase or Higgins
Metcalf or Njgba
Brown or Smith
Debo or Kittle or Aiyuk
Would you? I certainly wouldn't, and I doubt many if any on this board would either. That says something. It says there are 4-5 teams that have done a better job of identifying / developing 2 guys on the same team to do something better than our 1 guy.

Sorry, not sure what more you want? If you are seeing games where Pittman is trouncing the opposition and just wrecking defenses with blow buys or 70 yard posts and write ups by PFF etc...calling out how he is nearly unstoppable, great, but I think we are seeing the same games he plays? He just isn't one of those game changing guys, he just isn't no matter how bad we may want him to be- and I think everyone of us would love for him to be.

Chromeburn 09-14-2023 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 274542)
No, I don't have statistical evidence of such, and yes, as I stated IMO this is the NFL's list of the best, and yes there are TE's in there because there are TE's that I think are more in the mode of a # 1 guy, than the one we have as the # 1.

Would you take him over:
Hill or Waddle
Chase or Higgins
Metcalf or Njgba
Brown or Smith
Debo or Kittle or Aiyuk
Would you? I certainly wouldn't, and I doubt many if any on this board would either. That says something. It says there are 4-5 teams that have done a better job of identifying / developing 2 guys on the same team to do something better than our 1 guy.

Sorry, not sure what more you want? If you are seeing games where Pittman is trouncing the opposition and just wrecking defenses with blow buys or 70 yard posts and write ups by PFF etc...calling out how he is nearly unstoppable, great, but I think we are seeing the same games he plays? He just isn't one of those game changing guys, he just isn't no matter how bad we may want him to be- and I think everyone of us would love for him to be.

You only list 11 guys there. You have Pittman as 28. Tell me where on your list do guys stop being number 1 receivers? Then I'll answer you questions.

ChoppedWood 09-14-2023 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274558)
You only list 11 guys there. You have Pittman as 28. Tell me where on your list do guys stop being number 1 receivers? Then I'll answer you questions.

I already said, I draw that imaginary line at somewhere around # 15. Those dudes in that first group are just on a different level IMO. This is obviously a subjective topic, very few are going to agree on the precise definition of this or that player. If this were that objective, well then we wouldn't be having this debate.

So where in that list do you put Pittman? Who does he climb over to enter into the space of a true # 1 WR in the NFL?

I'm open to debate, but I need something to tell me why he is better than say 18 of those dudes ahead of him...

Chromeburn 09-14-2023 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoppedWood (Post 274566)
I already said, I draw that imaginary line at somewhere around # 15. Those dudes in that first group are just on a different level IMO. This is obviously a subjective topic, very few are going to agree on the precise definition of this or that player. If this were that objective, well then we wouldn't be having this debate.

So where in that list do you put Pittman? Who does he climb over to enter into the space of a true # 1 WR in the NFL?

I'm open to debate, but I need something to tell me why he is better than say 18 of those dudes ahead of him...

I put him in the 10 to 15 range. He doesn’t have another receiver to draw coverage away from him. He faces the opposing team’s best CB every week. And he has mid to bad QB play to deal with. But he is still putting up wr 1 numbers for three seasons. Also he is more, and better, than the contested catch wr ppl have him pegged as. He is not a burner but is very good at creating separation at the catch point. There is no one successful type of WR, lots of different kinds are successful.

Even though he’s 6’4, 223 pounds, he is able to create quick separation off the line. His 10-yard split was faster than all of these prospects at the combine even though he is 20lbs heavier than some:

Pittman Jr. = 1.51
Reagor = 1.52
Aiyuk = 1.52
Jefferson = 1.54
Higgins = 1.66

I don't have a whole lot from 2022, that was a fubar season, but a lot from 2021.

Michael Pittman Jr. was an absolute dog against single-man coverage in 2021, creating a step or more of separation on 66% of his opportunities.
Only Mike Evans (73%) and Keenan Allen (67%) finished higher.
He was only targeted 28% vs. s-man coverage while other leaders saw 40%+
Top-10 WRs at generating step or more of separation vs. single-man coverage in 2021 (min 70 routes against single man)

73% Mike Evans
67% Keenan Allen
66% Michael Pittman Jr.
65% Amari Cooper
65% A.J. Brown
64% Cooper Kupp
63% Jaylen Waddle
62% Marquise Brown
62% Brandin Cooks
62% Justin Jefferson

Michael Pittman Jr has this weird stigma around him that he is a contested catch guy... however only 20% of his catches in 2021 were contested. He’s an underneath smooth route runner. People think the only separation you can do is with deep balls and 4.3 speed. But a ton of receivers have been great without those attributes. Pittman generates his separation just before the point of contact with the ball. Creating a step or more before he catches the ball. He doesn't have that second gear to burn guys but that doesn't mean he doesn't do enough to get open.

He also had a higher average separation than guys like Terry McLaurin, Stefon Diggs, and D.J Moore last year (per Next Gen Stats) and a 96% success rate against press coverage. Press coverage is what these lighter speedy receivers have trouble with, but Pittman is strong enough to not be redirected.

Entering this season the top NFL receivers against press coverage.

1. Justin Jefferson (84%)
T-2. Stephon Diggs (83.3%)
T-2. A.J. Brown (83.3%)
4. Devante Adams (83.1)
5. Terry McLaurin (81.7%)
6. Michael Pittman (81.7%)
7. Garret Wilson (81.2%)
8. Ja'Marr Chase (80.2%)
9. Brandon Aiyuk (79.3%)
10. Jahan Dotson (78.8)AC

That's some elite company for a number 2 receiver.

Finally his stats. They place him in the 10-15 range. Number 2’s don’t get 1000 yards in their second year. This guy would be killing it with consistent QB play. He is their most consistent contributor for several years now. If he was easy to scheme away then he would be taken away.

ChoppedWood 09-14-2023 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 274570)
I put him in the 10 to 15 range. He doesn’t have another receiver to draw coverage away from him. He faces the opposing team’s best CB every week. And he has mid to bad QB play to deal with. But he is still putting up wr 1 numbers for three seasons. Also he is more, and better, than the contested catch wr ppl have him pegged as. He is not a burner but is very good at creating separation at the catch point. There is no one successful type of WR, lots of different kinds are successful.

I’ll lay it out later today with stats in this post after I finish some things.

Yeah the QB play definitely should be a variable in this eval. Obviously Chase and Higgins and Brown and Smith have great QB's to throw them the ball making them look better than their already world class talents present. However the guys on the 9ers and Hawks haven't really had that level of top tier QB and they have done some great things (Russ and Metcalf... yeah I get it).

He has really been on the short end of the stick with the QB situation around here. Would be fabulous if this new cat leads to Pittman emerging as a bonafide WR star, would love nothing more and would back off Ballard for knowing more than it looks like to me right now.


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