Quote:
No, Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne don't owe everything to Peyton Manning, either. But neither of them would've ascended to the heights they did without him. Ja'Marr Chase would've been dominant anywhere he went, but I do think he's better because he's with Burrow.
|
Glad you're starting to come back to Earth and make some sense.
Quote:
He had a bad first half and a fluke second half of the season, the Dallas game being a perfect example of that. He still can't read a defense or make an anticipation throw. You can pump a completion percentage up by doing a lot of screens, quick reads, and short pick plays, all things that Lawrence has never struggled with. But if he can't make a defense pay for the coverage they choose because he can't decipher it and make the correct read, defenses will just force him to stay in the pocket and beat them with his arm, which he won't be able to. I still see no evidence that Trevor Lawrence can operate within the structure of the offense when that structure requires him to make a full field read and throw the ball with anticipation.
|
His bad first half I'm sure had a lot to do w/ the hangover from the Urban Meyer dumpster fire of '21. Then once he got comfortable w/ Pederson's system and regained his confidence he took off. And I'm sorry, but you just can't luck your way into the type of production he put up this past year.
Quote:
I don't know that I'd call him a bust yet, certainly a disappointment to this point. I know he needs to get out of the Jets organization in all likelihood to succeed at this point. Are his disappointing results on him on some level? They have to be, he's the one creating the results. I don't think the Jets have done his development any favors along the way, though, and he would be looked at even worse than he is now if he pulled a Russell Wilson and hired his own coaching staff.
|
As it stands now he's a bust of Leaflike magnitude. Do agree that the Jets probably didn't do him any favors (other than add some nice weapons in the offseason), and that he needs to go to another team if he's going to turn things around.
Quote:
I'm not necessarily a fan of Fields or not a fan of Hurts. You asked different things about both of them. I don't think Hurts has the ability to be in the Top 5 of QBs in the NFL long term, and he'd have a hard time maintaining a top 10 spot. I think Fields could get there at some point, but honestly it would involve putting a better supporting cast around him and having him try to do his best Lamar Jackson imitation less.
|
I think we've beaten this horse to death. Obviously I'm higher on Hurts than you are and you're much higher on Fields than I am. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Quote:
Lol don't Bears fans wish? It was an allegory to illustrate that just because a take is unpopular at the time doesn't mean it's wrong. And the closest thing the NFL has had to Michael Jordan is Peyton Manning.
|
I know what you were getting at. I was being a smartass. Also, my comment on you being the only person on the planet who would take Fields over Lawrence is as of today than as of draft day (although it's probably correct back then as well). While they both struggled their rookie years, Lawrence was head and shoulders much better in his 2nd year with the arrow pointing further up than Fields.
Quote:
This is missing the point (see above), but I'm pretty sure they would've been happier with six championships rather than two.
|
Yeah, I know. Just had to stick up for Hakeem and the Rockets. I'm not a fan or anything, but IMO if a team drafts someone who has a HOF career and brings them multiple championships then it's not really a mistake no matter on what they missed out on. Now Portland drafting Sam Bowie, THAT was a mistake.
Quote:
For the most part, I'm just going to agree to disagree here on the ones you disagreed on. I only have 2 points in response:
1) I never said Murray was a Top 10 QB or junk. I will say he probably hasn't lived up to the lofty expectations of a #1 overall pick, evidenced by the fact that the Cardinals were hesitant to extend him. But there was also a reason that they finally did give him a 5 year, $230.5 million extension. He's a player who has been in MVP discussions in the past. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him to return to that form.
|
Junk was paraphrasing and exaggerating, but here's what you said about him when arguing that Lincoln Riley QBs don't make it in the NFL:
the Cardinals hesitantly and almost begrudgingly resigned Kyler Murray, originally putting a film study clause in his contract, he seems disappointing as well.
Obviously, not a glowing endorsement. Then you listed 14 QBs you think will be better than Hurts next year w/ Murray being one of them. So maybe you don't think he's a top 10 QB, but you at least think he's in that range.
A big reason why Murray was selected #1 overall and given his extension is b/c of the man crush Cliff Kingsbury has had on him since Murray was in HS. Most of what I read going into the '19 draft was that mostly unanimous consensus around the league was that Murray was nowhere near the #1 overall pick, but the Cardinals thought he was due to said man crush. Similar w/ his extension.
And yes, Murray played pretty well his first couple of years and was in the MVP conversation for the first half of '21. Then his play completely fell off and he obviously had a bad year last year. Could be wrong, but I think he's going to struggle at least next year w/ a new coaching staff.
Quote:
2) Interestingly enough, it was our board's own Lawrence Owen that convinced me that Daniel Jones was a possibility. Jones also started using his legs more this year, but more importantly continued his longstanding trend of getting better at protecting the football. He also had a very poor supporting cast outside of Saquon Barkley last season. If he got some better weapons and continued to take care of the ball well, a 4,500 total yard, 35 total TD season wouldn't be out of the question, and that would likely be better than Hurts, considering that was basically 2022 Hurts's stat line and I am anticipating regression from that.
|
Jones definitely improved considerably last year, but that took him from being a total bust to maybe he might work out status. He'll have to make a similar if not bigger leap in '23 to have a better year than Hurts, which I don't think he has in him.
Anyway, to put an end to the pissing contest here's what I propose: a gentlemen's bet where Hurts has a better year in '23 than half of the QBs you listed in your maybe group. The loser has to post a thread on here stating that they were wrong and eat their crow. Obviously if serious injuries come into play then the bet's off.
Also, we can the same bet with Lawrence vs. Fields for next year.
You in for either of them?
