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-   -   Done Deal: Colts Trade for Wentz (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118415)

Brylok 02-18-2021 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFF (Post 187180)
If wentz plays well it will be worth it. If he plays well, that pick is in the 20’s.
I've definitely warmed up to it in the last couple of hours. We aren't risking too much, and there's potential for great return on the investment. Let's go

apballin 02-18-2021 04:39 PM
I like it, former #2 overall and last year was a shit show in Philly, he had no WRs and his Oline was banged up and Clowney speared him early in the year giving him a nasty concussion. The times I seen Philly play last year it looked like he was trying to play hero ball. Fresh start with a solid line some decent weapons and a familiar coach. We don’t need him to be a hero we just need him to put up 30 tds and limit the turnovers

Chaka 02-18-2021 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 187225)
Eagles must really want Wentz gone to eat a $33.82 million dollar cap hit. I am all for Reich fixing this dude, just hope not a head case. Now can use the 2021 1st #21 on a LT or edge depending on UFA signings. Pretty sure Ballard, Reich and that ex green beret (Brian Decker) spent plenty of time in Wentz's brain insuring he is ready. :cool:
I read it more as prudent cap management by the Eagles. They were on the hook for roughly the same $33.82M cap hit if he stayed (actually slightly more), but they'd burn another $30M or so in 2022 cap space by allowing him to do so. If they were ready to move on to Hurts, it just makes sense to get rid of him regardless of whether they think he's a head case or not. That pressure on the Eagles is a big part of why I expected a lower return for him.

Chromeburn 02-18-2021 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 187206)
The best thing is, I don't have to read anymore about Dammy praising the greatness of Mac Jones.
Hahaha I heard a comparison of Jones to Chad Pennington pre-injury. And I kinda like that comparison.

rcubed 02-18-2021 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierinFL (Post 187221)
If he sucks, you don't play him for 75% of the games, and you don't lose a first rounder. I can't understand why you guys all think that if he sucks we'd still let him play?
so its either he sucks or SB? no in between? no possible way he plays well enough to be in games but not necessarily win them? no way we go 9-7, he plays over 75% snaps and lose our first?

rcubed 02-18-2021 05:35 PM
overall I think this is a good trade and probably worth the risk. I just worry about being mediocre and losing a first for it.

JAFF 02-18-2021 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcubed (Post 187238)
overall I think this is a good trade and probably worth the risk. I just worry about being mediocre and losing a first for it.
Its an equitable deal. If the Colts win with Wentz, the Eagles win. If Wentz fails, then the cost is minimal to the Colts still have top draft picks to work with.

Ballard and Reich have bet on Wentz, but they didnt bet the house

Racehorse 02-18-2021 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyNorm (Post 187212)
If he sucks then we bench him and keep our 1st rounder. The bigger risk is if he's just ok and we finish ~.500 b/c then he's probably starting for the whole year and we lose mid 1st rounder.
Unless we go wildcat on third downs all year

Brylok 02-18-2021 05:53 PM
Wentz is risking his career by coming to indianapolis. If he fails here, he's finished. That's probably why he said he'd only go to the Colts; trusting Frank Reich to sort him out. It should be extra motivation for him to succeed.

Oldcolt 02-18-2021 06:05 PM
I have heard that this was Ballards original offer. If true, this is very good for the Colts. Ballard doesn't try to fleece people. He is an honest broker and doesn't get fleeced himself. Players, gms and agents know this. It makes Indianapolis a place that players want to come to (in and of itself that is an amazing feat) and teams are willing to work with. The future is bright for this team.

JAFF 02-18-2021 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brylok (Post 187248)
Wentz is risking his career by coming to indianapolis. If he fails here, he's finished. That's probably why he said he'd only go to the Colts; trusting Frank Reich to sort him out. It should be extra motivation for him to succeed.
Thats true if he stayed in philly or the Washington Sentinels

nate505 02-18-2021 06:39 PM
I like the deal. It's not perfect, but I've always liked the idea of taking someone who is really talented and hoping their career can be salvaged.

At the absolute worst, the Colts will finish like 8-8 next year with Wentz playing all their games and will end up losing their first, but it feels like a small risk. Most likely the two options are he'll resurrect his career here and the Colts will have a good QB for a while, or he'll suck and it'll just cost a 3rd and a 2nd.

Either way it's well worth the risk IMO. This guy has real talent.

Spike 02-18-2021 06:50 PM
Definitely worth the risk. The Eagles are a clusterfuck organization.

I'm sure Reich and Ballard would not have pulled the trigger on this transaction without believing they could help transition Wentz back to the old Wentz.

Yeah, Foles was excellent in the SB run, but Wentz was the one that got them to the playoffs and played at a MVP level. Then when it was all said and done, the fucking Eagles built a statue of Foles. Then they draft another QB early. How the hell can that not fuck up your mental approach to the game.

Risk vs. Reward, I'll take it. We didn't really have many other options.

apballin 02-18-2021 06:56 PM
I forgot to mention he’ll be playing in Lucas oil as opposed to the shitty outdoors in Philly

YDFL Commish 02-18-2021 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironshaft (Post 187213)
2019 / 607 att / 388 comp / 63.9% / 4,039 yards / 27 TD / 7 INT / 6.7 YPA / 93.1 QBR
2018 / 401 att / 279 comp / 69.6% / 3,074 yards / 21 TD / 7 INT / 7.7 YPA / 102.2 QBR
2017 / 440 att / 265 comp / 60.2% / 3,296 yards / 33 TD / 7 INT / 7.5 YPA / 101.9 QBR

Had Wentz been on the block last off-season, you would all be singing Ballard's praises about how he fleeced the Iggles by getting a great young QB for only a 3rd and next year 1st round pick. Arguably a top 5 QB under the age of 30.

Granted, his 2020 campaign was pretty bad (okay, borderline horrific) and this is very much a "what have you done for me recently" type league (and fan base) but prior to 2020, he was very much in "stud" territory.

However, if Reich and Ballard believe they can get him back to the above level of play, then I have faith in them. They have not had many misses in their time with the Colts.
In 2019 Wentz, had to play hero ball to get the Eagles into the playoffs. He carried an average team that year. In 2020, he tried to do the same thing on a terrible team and that didn't work out.

Anyone remember Peyton's 2001 season. I do and it was very similar Wentz 2020 season.

How did that work out?

rm1369 02-18-2021 08:26 PM
I would have preferred Darnold, but overall this is a decent deal. Especially if you believe in Reich, which I do.

YDFL Commish 02-18-2021 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 187270)
I would have preferred Darnold, but overall this is a decent deal. Especially if you believe in Reich, which I do.
Darnold? Because he has done what?

Maniac 02-18-2021 09:14 PM
Well, I trust in Ballard, so hopefully Wentz can return to form. As far as the trade goes, it's about as low risk of a trade as you can make. I just hope he works out so it's not a wasted year or two.

Butter 02-18-2021 09:18 PM
The risk to reward seems ok in this deal, Wentz has a lot of issues to work out, hopefully Frank can do it.

rm1369 02-18-2021 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 187276)
Darnold? Because he has done what?
Been on a bad Jets team? I don’t think he’s had an opportunity to develop. Wentz has a bad injury history and questions about his coachability and locker room presence. I trust Reich to know how real / how bad the latter two are, so I’m fine with the deal. But those are huge red flags for a QB. Absent Reich’s first hand knowledge I’d take the guy that I don’t think has been given a chance

TheMugwump 02-18-2021 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 187276)
Darnold? Because he has done what?
He's seven years younger, has never had good coaching, has just as good of an arm, and is more athletic.

Dam8610 02-19-2021 01:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMugwump (Post 187289)
He's seven years younger, has never had good coaching, has just as good of an arm, and is more athletic.
December 30, 1992 to June 5, 1997 is approximately 4.5 years, not 7.

albany ed 02-19-2021 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 187270)
I would have preferred Darnold, but overall this is a decent deal. Especially if you believe in Reich, which I do.
I would have too, but at this point, you don't even know if the Jets want to move on from Darnold. They have a new coach and a lot of holes to fill and they have (I think) 5 draft choices in the first two rounds to get some help for Darnold. If they choose to do that.

And it no longer matters. We have Carson Wentz. Let's hope Reich who was his OC in his best years can return Carson from wentz he came.

sorry for the corn ball line but I couldn't help myself.

omahacolt 02-19-2021 11:47 AM
I don’t hate this move. Would be much happier if it were a 2nd and not a probable 1st next year

Lawrence Owen 02-19-2021 01:38 PM
Something many are not talking about, or realizing, is that after the trade, Carson cost's the Colts only $25 mil/year, for the next 4 years.

In starting QB comparisons, that's 16th in the NFL. Not shabby if he works out.

Also, if he gets hurt, or doesn't play well, and the Colts want to move on from him, they can release, or trade him, with no dead cap strings! Again, that is a plus from this transaction.

Chromeburn 02-19-2021 04:21 PM
I think Reich can get his hero ball tendencies down. He did it with Rivers last year. It may take half the season for him to realize he doesn’t have to do everything himself. But it should come down, I’m more worried about his mechanics and throwing motion and his health.

Rivers was sacked 19 times last year. Wentz was sacked 55 times last year. Assuming we fill LT appropriately. I think that number should be similar to Rivers numbers.

So if he plays smart enough and protects his body, it will come down to him working on his mechanics and working with his s receivers.

rcubed 02-19-2021 04:25 PM
is eason promoted to QB2? or do we bring in a journeyman vet.

Dam8610 02-19-2021 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 187335)
I think Reich can get his hero ball tendencies down. He did it with Rivers last year. It may take half the season for him to realize he doesn’t have to do everything himself. But it should come down, I’m more worried about his mechanics and throwing motion and his health.

Rivers was sacked 19 times last year. Wentz was sacked 55 times last year. Assuming we fill LT appropriately. I think that number should be similar to Rivers numbers.

So if he plays smart enough and protects his body, it will come down to him working on his mechanics and working with his s receivers.
He also held the ball too long at times last year. Reich has 3 things to fix with Wentz: 1) Remove the hero ball mentality altogether 2) Lots of film room work to get his decision making back to peak 3) Fix the mechanics of his throw so he doesn't pigeon toe, thereby maximizing his throw power and removing some of the bad interceptions he threw from unnecessary hip torque and bad throwing angles last year.

The part about the mechanics you can actually test yourself. I tried it once (purposefully pigeon toeing while attempting throwing mechanics) and instantly felt how much the rest of my body, especially core, hips, and shoulders, would need to compensate to get a throw on the correct trajectory. In full speed live action, it would be impossible.

JAFF 02-19-2021 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by albany ed (Post 187297)
I would have too, but at this point, you don't even know if the Jets want to move on from Darnold. They have a new coach and a lot of holes to fill and they have (I think) 5 draft choices in the first two rounds to get some help for Darnold. If they choose to do that.

And it no longer matters. We have Carson Wentz. Let's hope Reich who was his OC in his best years can return Carson from wentz he came.

sorry for the corn ball line but I couldn't help myself.
Its so bad its good

JAFF 02-19-2021 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 187335)
I think Reich can get his hero ball tendencies down. He did it with Rivers last year. It may take half the season for him to realize he doesn’t have to do everything himself. But it should come down, I’m more worried about his mechanics and throwing motion and his health.

Rivers was sacked 19 times last year. Wentz was sacked 55 times last year. Assuming we fill LT appropriately. I think that number should be similar to Rivers numbers.

So if he plays smart enough and protects his body, it will come down to him working on his mechanics and working with his s receivers.
He did it with luck, hero ball tendancies

JAFF 02-19-2021 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 187307)
I don’t hate this move. Would be much happier if it were a 2nd and not a probable 1st next year
If this trade fails, the cost is minimal. If it works, holy shit its a steal.

YDFL Commish 02-19-2021 06:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcubed (Post 187337)
is eason promoted to QB2? or do we bring in a journeyman vet.
Gotta see what Eason's got. I might bring in a an unproven late round pick or UDFA to compete with him, but we gotta find out if Eason could be the answer in case Wentz fails.

TheMugwump 02-19-2021 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 187292)
December 30, 1992 to June 5, 1997 is approximately 4.5 years, not 7.
You're right, I didn't do my research. I know Sam is 23. I kept reading that Wentz was 30, or almost 30. I guess I read wrong.

Still, younger is better, IMO, if a QB is going to be a long-term franchise QB.

Dewey 5 02-19-2021 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by YDFL Commish (Post 187352)
Gotta see what Eason's got. I might bring in a an unproven late round pick or UDFA to compete with him, but we gotta find out if Eason could be the answer in case Wentz fails.
Would be nice to have a OTA's, full training camp, & preseason so they can get a good long look at him. If he does win the qb2 job I think his development would speed up considerably.

YDFL Commish 02-19-2021 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey 5 (Post 187357)
Would be nice to have a OTA's, full training camp, & preseason so they can get a good long look at him. If he does win the qb2 job I think his development would speed up considerably.
Absolutely, hopefully that happens!

Dam8610 02-19-2021 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMugwump (Post 187353)
You're right, I didn't do my research. I know Sam is 23. I kept reading that Wentz was 30, or almost 30. I guess I read wrong.

Still, younger is better, IMO, if a QB is going to be a long-term franchise QB.
Franchise QBs can play to 40 these days. Having the guy that Ballard and Reich believe they can fix and turn into an upper tier guy for 10 or so years is better than having a guy they're not as sure about for 15 or so years.

Oldcolt 02-19-2021 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 187363)
Franchise QBs can play to 40 these days. Having the guy that Ballard and Reich believe they can fix and turn into an upper tier guy for 10 or so years is better than having a guy they're not as sure about for 15 or so years.
Well it’s nice that we don’t have to choose, we apparently have both

Voosh 02-19-2021 11:08 PM
This one has me torn. There weren't really any much better options. I've read that he is going to be an MVP candidate by the likes of Orlovsky and that he is a shitty locker room cancer. I'm giving Ballard and Reich the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Brylok 02-20-2021 12:36 AM
Thirty hours or so later and I'm feeling very positive. I saw the video of Wentz landing and he looked really happy. Irsay seems happy and posted a pic of Frank on twitter looking happy. Some players have already communicated with Wentz and it's all been happy. Colin Cowherd is delighted and has the Colts in his seven Superbowl teams list. Let's get Carson fixed and in a good place mentally, hopefully have camp and a preseason, and let's go!

The Eagles are a grease fire and have a mountain to climb. Good luck with that, Nick Sirianni.

apballin 02-20-2021 09:54 AM
Wentz said he’s keeping #11, gotta get another Pittman jersey next year


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