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  #21  
Old 01-10-2019, 11:30 PM
Dam8610 Dam8610 is offline
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Originally Posted by Butter View Post
I guess at that small amount of compensation things change, but I can't realistically see him going anywhere near that low, especially in the same conference.
Randy Moss went in the same conference for a 4.

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Originally Posted by 1965southpaw View Post
Hmmmm......I didn't realize it but TY and AB share a special bond. They grew up in the same part of Miami and though they never played together, TYs dad was his coach and an important figure in his life due to a troubled childhood. Raises a new wrinkle.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geK...jweWUjqSnByzc-
This is part of why I'd be willing to do it. Maybe being around his childhood friend who is apparently much less dramatic would help him. Plus I'd love to see the Steelers take the cap hit on Brown's guaranteed money.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:26 AM
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Antonio Brown’s cap hits to a new team: (assuming that he would be traded prior to 16 March 2019 so that the new team would have to pay his due $2.500m Roster Bonus. If traded after 16 March 2019 and PIT pays the bonus, then his 2019 cap hit to a new team would only be $12.625m)

2019 = $15.125m
2020 = $11.300m
2021 = $12.500m
2022 = UFA

2018 / 15 games / 168 targets / 104 catches / 61.9% / 1,297 yards / 15 TD / 0 Fumbles
2017 / 14 games / 163 targets / 101 catches / 62.0% / 1,533 yards / 09 TD / 4 Fumbles
2016 / 15 games / 154 targets / 106 catches / 68.8% / 1,284 yards / 12 TD / 0 Fumbles
2015 / 16 games / 193 targets / 136 catches / 70.5% / 1,834 yards / 10 TD / 3 Fumbles
2014 / 16 games / 181 targets / 129 catches / 71.3% / 1,698 yards / 13 TD / 2 Fumbles

Any way you slice it, Brown, from purely a cap hit / talent / production standpoint would be a fantastic value to trade for. There is no wide receiver we could draft with a 2nd / 3rd / 4th round pick that would deliver the same level of immediate impact to our offense over the next three seasons. Long term? Different story since Brown is already 30 and will be 31 for the 2019 season; he is a 3 to 4 year rental rather than a long-term piece.

Oh, but what a rental? T.Y. on one side, Brown on the other with Doyle and Ebron as the tight ends? If Cain develops? If Inman is signed for another season? If Fountain develops? With our O-Line?

It all comes down to attitude. I was pleased to hear that after Rooney said that “all options are on the table” that Brown tweeted a picture of him signing his 2017 contract extension saying “Good Business, #Boomin.” This might indicate that his issues are with HC Tomlin and players rather than a bad attitude towards the team as a whole.

I have a co-worker who is as much of a Steelers fan and I am a Colts fan. Grew up in PIT, dad has season tickets, lives and breaths Black & Gold. His characterization is that Brown has been that he has been “feisty” his whole career with tweets and comments to the press but has never before this season been “out of line.” He thinks that the real issue is with Big Ben (my friend wants him to retire and rebuild) and not Brown or Bell.

The youth T.Y. and Brown connection is also interesting. Certainly that insight to the character of his youth would be a pretty important data point to have.

Regardless, I would give up a 3rd for sure and perhaps even our lowest 2nd round pick for Brown IF Ballard is convinced that he can come on this team, keep his ego in check and be a good teammate. Wide Receiver is, IMO, our weakest position group going into 2019 outside of T.Y. and adding Brown immediately solves that problem. There are going to be few other solutions available in free agency this off-season and drafting a high-round WR rookie is almost always going to be a crap shoot for the first couple of seasons.

We have the cap space for years to come, he fills a need and the cost would be relatively cheap in terms of draft choices for a KNOWN sure-fire player of his caliber. I would be onboard if Ballard makes the trade.

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  #23  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:47 AM
Colt Classic Colt Classic is offline
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It seems strange that an organization like the Steelers would have two problematic players at one time. Not a crazy notion to think the constants being Ben and the ownership could be what has set both of them off the deep end. Send a 3rd and 4th for the package deal.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2019, 08:49 AM
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The Steelers Bell (RB) and Brown (WR) both would be a cancer to this locker room. Rather not pursue either
Maybe the cancer is Rapelisburger and Tomlison?
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:09 AM
GoBigBlue88 GoBigBlue88 is offline
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Honestly, I'm less concerned about Brown reports out of PIT (I think they completely coddle Big Ben who is more usually the problem) than I am the fact that Brown is 30 years old. He was surpassed this season by JuJu on pure effectiveness. He's still a damn good WR, but you're not getting prime or approaching prime with Brown; you're getting start of decline. Any financial commitment would have to acknowledge that.

I think underrated or underdeveloped players will continue to be Ballard's forte.

In the underrated department, Golden Tate intrigues the hell out of me....but he's more of a slot than a boundary WR. Colts could still use that skillset.

I think a name to watch out for is Tyrell Williams. Chargers are gonna have roughly $27M in cap space and need to pay Verrett and Perryman at the very least. Not sure how much Williams will command as he didn't put up monster numbers by any stretch, but he's 26, 6-4 and kinda has the career look of a Reggie Wayne type on the verge of breaking out.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1965southpaw View Post
Hmmmm......I didn't realize it but TY and AB share a special bond. They grew up in the same part of Miami and though they never played together, TYs dad was his coach and an important figure in his life due to a troubled childhood. Raises a new wrinkle.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geK...jweWUjqSnByzc-
Yes, this was well reported when they first came into prominence in the league

I guess I am in the minority because I would love for Brown and TY to pair up. Seems like a whole lot of shit going on in Pitt and I don't blame it all on Brown. Roethlisberger always seems to have a problem with someone, OC, players, coaches, women who for someone reason won't have sex with him in a bar or in public.

We have an extra second round pick, I'd even give up that for Brown. Or pair the compensatory 4th we are getting with a 3rd.

I would rather have Brown than Bell. RBs fall of quicker that WRs and the running game has been fine with Mack. A back goes up and put up that performance for you in a big playoff game and you tell him great, but we are signing a new, older RB , for a lot more money, to replace you, seems like a bad message
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  #27  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:15 AM
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I'd do it for a 4th, as long as Ballard and Reich had a conversation w/him beforehand and were convinced that Brown's problems are situational and not based on his personality.

I don't like JMV's wording about looking for a WR1. We have our WR1. We could use a better WR2. Grigson looked all over for one in FA and never found one. He drafted one in Hilton, but I still remember Hilton losing reps to DHB. Avery, Nicks, Andre Johnson, none of them could do the job.

I think with this line and Luck healthy, investing too much in skill positions is a mistake. There are a relative ton of pass rushers with expiring contracts this year. Maybe one or two of them shakes loose. I'd rather spend money there. Yes I know, we have tons of cap. We can do both. But it would need to be the absolute right guy for this team. Luck with time can elevate his receivers.
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  #28  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:21 AM
Dam8610 Dam8610 is offline
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Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 View Post
Honestly, I'm less concerned about Brown reports out of PIT (I think they completely coddle Big Ben who is more usually the problem) than I am the fact that Brown is 30 years old. He was surpassed this season by JuJu on pure effectiveness. He's still a damn good WR, but you're not getting prime or approaching prime with Brown; you're getting start of decline. Any financial commitment would have to acknowledge that.

I think underrated or underdeveloped players will continue to be Ballard's forte.

In the underrated department, Golden Tate intrigues the hell out of me....but he's more of a slot than a boundary WR. Colts could still use that skillset.

I think a name to watch out for is Tyrell Williams. Chargers are gonna have roughly $27M in cap space and need to pay Verrett and Perryman at the very least. Not sure how much Williams will command as he didn't put up monster numbers by any stretch, but he's 26, 6-4 and kinda has the career look of a Reggie Wayne type on the verge of breaking out.
If you're concerned about decline, Tate will be 31 next year. Williams will be 27 and has had a 1,000 yard season, he might be worth a low end starter's contract.
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  #29  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:27 AM
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I think southpaw said it, that Ballard's fantastic off-season in draft and FA means that he has earned our trust that he will do the same level of due diligence that brought us the best draft in 100 years and fixed the OL in a dingle season.

That said:

trading a 3rd and a 4th for:

a 31 year old WR (who generally peak at 27) and
a 26 year old RB (who generally peak at 25)

Smacks of Grigson-Johnson-Gore.

(side note, though I am all in for Marlon Mack, I would have loved to see Gore run behind this line)
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  #30  
Old 01-11-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT View Post
I'd do it for a 4th, as long as Ballard and Reich had a conversation w/him beforehand and were convinced that Brown's problems are situational and not based on his personality.
.
Yeah, if they got to the bottom of the issue then a 4 or possibly a 3 I would be fine with. We have the money and I think he would still be good over the next couple years.

From sports talk radio and some articles it sounds like ben is an issue and tomlin enables it by not doing anything. Steelers org sounds like its falling apart. Unless he is a total headcase I would guess that luck, reich, etc might keep him in line. Change of atmosphere often fixes these things as well.
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