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  #11  
Old 08-22-2018, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc View Post
One word-liability.

The owners care only about their money and getting sued like they have has pissed them off. They will make the game unwatchable before they lose another red cent. It’s sad but that’s what it is.
There is also the future players to consider. Less parents are letting their children play football because of the head injury concerns and long term health. Football works because it is a grass roots system, it also why it doesn't take off outside of America. But if you player base starts to diminish, then so does your long term development.

They are ironing out the rule, it doesn't work now because they are still trying to get it down. But I think they will.

I don't understand how some of these guys made it to the pros with such bad tackling form. You put your head down or lead with your head you will get a concussion or end up crippled. I never thought tackling with your shoulder would be so hard. I think a lot of the offenders are secondary guys who are more known for their speed than ability to tackle.
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Old 08-22-2018, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
I don't understand how some of these guys made it to the pros with such bad tackling form. You put your head down or lead with your head you will get a concussion or end up crippled. I never thought tackling with your shoulder would be so hard. I think a lot of the offenders are secondary guys who are more known for their speed than ability to tackle.
I can only speak for myself, it freaking hurts when you hit with the top of your head. I played in HS, not very good, O and D line and sometimes your head is what hits first. Why would you do that on purpose?
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  #13  
Old 08-22-2018, 04:56 PM
VeveJones007 VeveJones007 is offline
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They don't have a choice. The players forced their hand by suing them. They were getting sued and called out for not taking player safety seriously by players, fans, the media, etc. They had no choice.

If a bunch of boxers got together and started suing the various promotions and sanctioning bodies, they would be in the same boat, and the sport would suffer.

Players can't have it both ways. They sue the NFL for their injuries and then complain when the NFL tries to make it safer to appease them and stop the lawsuits.
I'm committing blasphemy, but you're wrong. The NFL is in hot shit like tobacco companies were: the NFL sat on and suppressed science telling them the game was unsafe. That opened them up for liability.

If they had been transparent from the get-go, which is what Clint and I are saying, the NFL would not be exposed to liability.
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
There is also the future players to consider. Less parents are letting their children play football because of the head injury concerns and long term health. Football works because it is a grass roots system, it also why it doesn't take off outside of America. But if you player base starts to diminish, then so does your long term development.

They are ironing out the rule, it doesn't work now because they are still trying to get it down. But I think they will.

I don't understand how some of these guys made it to the pros with such bad tackling form. You put your head down or lead with your head you will get a concussion or end up crippled. I never thought tackling with your shoulder would be so hard. I think a lot of the offenders are secondary guys who are more known for their speed than ability to tackle.
The funny thing is that sub-concussive hits have also shown to be incredibly damaging to the human brain. Offensive and defensive linemen suffer those on every single play.

Like Clint said, as long as the players and NFL agree that the game is unsafe, then the issue is gone from the pro ranks. That would be the end of youth and high school tackle football, though.
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Old 08-22-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
I'm committing blasphemy, but you're wrong. The NFL is in hot shit like tobacco companies were: the NFL sat on and suppressed science telling them the game was unsafe. That opened them up for liability.

If they had been transparent from the get-go, which is what Clint and I are saying, the NFL would not be exposed to liability.
You have to be a complete moron not to know that a game where people smash into each other repeatedly is unsafe. It didn't matter if they were transparent or not, lawsuits would have been filed, but you can't file lawsuits and then complain about what someone is forced to do as a result of them. Them not telling the players the game wasn't safe is like mcdonald's not telling people that coffee is hot. In either case, it didn't matter that people didn't have common sense, the lawsuits were still filed.
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Old 08-22-2018, 07:25 PM
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You have to be a complete moron not to know that a game where people smash into each other repeatedly is unsafe. It didn't matter if they were transparent or not, lawsuits would have been filed, but you can't file lawsuits and then complain about what someone is forced to do as a result of them. Them not telling the players the game wasn't safe is like mcdonald's not telling people that coffee is hot. In either case, it didn't matter that people didn't have common sense, the lawsuits were still filed.
You are right. And the NFL is responsible because the rule was already in place, why, WHY wasn't it called? Spearing. It's in the rule book. Just call the penalty. It doesn't matter if you leave your feet or lead with your head, you hit with the head intentionally, it's spearing.
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  #17  
Old 08-23-2018, 11:28 AM
VeveJones007 VeveJones007 is offline
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Originally Posted by JesusChrist View Post
You have to be a complete moron not to know that a game where people smash into each other repeatedly is unsafe. It didn't matter if they were transparent or not, lawsuits would have been filed, but you can't file lawsuits and then complain about what someone is forced to do as a result of them. Them not telling the players the game wasn't safe is like mcdonald's not telling people that coffee is hot. In either case, it didn't matter that people didn't have common sense, the lawsuits were still filed.
There's a difference between filing a lawsuit and it actually producing damages. Simply filing a lawsuit is irrelevant to the discussion.

Also, if you've studied that McDonald's case, you would understand that it is not a good example. They knowingly prepared and served coffee that was too hot; the lady got third degree burns from it and she probably wouldn't have if McDonald's served the coffee at the recommended temperature. Like NFL players, consumers know that they're signing up for something that's hot, but not scalding. In tort law, these differences make a significant difference.

Last edited by VeveJones007; 08-23-2018 at 11:34 AM.
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  #18  
Old 08-23-2018, 03:14 PM
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I can only speak for myself, it freaking hurts when you hit with the top of your head. I played in HS, not very good, O and D line and sometimes your head is what hits first. Why would you do that on purpose?
I've gotten plenty of stingers and numb shoulders but I learned very early to keep my head up. I lowered it once in Jr High and the coach ripped me a new one. Good coach.
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  #19  
Old 08-23-2018, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
The funny thing is that sub-concussive hits have also shown to be incredibly damaging to the human brain. Offensive and defensive linemen suffer those on every single play.

Like Clint said, as long as the players and NFL agree that the game is unsafe, then the issue is gone from the pro ranks. That would be the end of youth and high school tackle football, though.
I think it is in real danger of disappearing the way it is now. This is why Goddell is pushing it. The feeding system is how it succeeds, football is an expensive sport to run compared to like soccer where all you need is a ball. Personally I never saw the helmet as protection but more a weapon. I wonder what the game would be like if you took it out.

I played DE, but yeah in the middle of the lines those guys are rocking each other every single play. Helmet to helmet hits every play. Every once in awhile I will read some guy talk about how rough soccer is and in American football you wear pads (usually trolls or guys from another country). But those pads once protect from superficial scraps, you get speared by a 250pd guy running full speed in your back or say your thigh and you see how little protection it really offers. Plus pads have shrunk quite a bit over the last 20 years.
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  #20  
Old 08-23-2018, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
There's a difference between filing a lawsuit and it actually producing damages. Simply filing a lawsuit is irrelevant to the discussion.

Also, if you've studied that McDonald's case, you would understand that it is not a good example. They knowingly prepared and served coffee that was too hot; the lady got third degree burns from it and she probably wouldn't have if McDonald's served the coffee at the recommended temperature. Like NFL players, consumers know that they're signing up for something that's hot, but not scalding. In tort law, these differences make a significant difference.
You're just playing with the wording about filing, but that really doesn't matter. In both cases, lawsuits were filed and money was paid out.

You can say the players didn't know the degree of danger, but they knew it was a game where they were violently colliding with other players hundreds of times a game every week, during practice, etc. They knew it was very dangerous to do that, but they still sued the NFL saying "The NFL didn't tell me it was dangerous and they knew." The players knew too, but they sued the NFL anyway. So quite obviously in a situation like that, the NFL HAS to change things or risk more of the same lawsuits down the road. They don't have a choice. The players are now complaining about something they made happen.
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