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  #61  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:19 AM
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He is clearly not Hitler, he is more Mussolini.


Comparing him to any of the real demons of history is a stretch. He is an idiot, but pales in comparison to any of those fine upstanding citizens of the world. The two party system is a joke, and every time I see everyone going back and forth over "MY SIDE" is better I laugh, hard. Two headed snake that feeds the same body. When was the last time a Republicans shrunk the government, or Democrats truly helped the poor? I'll wait.
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  #62  
Old 05-27-2018, 09:50 AM
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“Trump is Hitler”. “The next holocaust”.

Lol. You’re an idiot.

Newsflash-they’ve had immigrant detention centers in this country since the 1890’s. As long as we have immigration laws, we will have immigration detention centers. It’s not a Trump phenomenon, as much as you crave it to be.

I get you guys need a boogeyman to be afraid of, but at least do a little research before spouting off.

I think Trump is a moron and unfit to be president, but he’s no freakin Hitler. Comparing him to a real monster like Hitler trivializes the millions who died under his thumb.

I don’t think anyone that uses a Hitler reference is suggesting Trump is on par with “Hitler”. But let’s not forget that before Hitler was “Hitler” he was a democratically elected leader that used fear, nationalism, and scapegoating of minorities as tools to increase support among his followers, consolidate power, and crush his enemies. So no Trump is not “Hitler”, but he has damn sure shown many tendencies common in ruthless strongmen from the recent past - including German Chancellor Adolf Hitler.

I personally think the only thing standing between Trump and mass atrocities is our system of checks and balances. However, these are the same checks and balances both Trump and a not insignificant portion of the Republican Party (Nunes, etc) are working to actively undermine and erode. While the rest sit by silently. Trump is not just stupid and ignorant - he is dangerous. He is a man that is not driven by any type of moral compass. He is driven strictly by power and greed. He expects and rewards only blind loyalty to himself. While he is a blubbering idiot in most regards he is a master showman and he has both a massively powerful delivery platform (Fox “news”), religious cover (thanks evangelicals), and a more than willing and largely poorly educated and pissed off support base.

He is more than merely an idiot tarnishing the US presidency and the country itself. He is the embodiment of the worst and most dangerous impulses within us. He has access to the most destructive military capabilities the world has ever produced. He has a massive PR wing that spins ever topic in his favor. And fully 1/3 of our population follows him blindly and believes his every word. I’m sorry, but that is way more that just an idiot to be laughed at and disregarded.
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  #63  
Old 05-27-2018, 10:11 AM
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I donít think anyone that uses a Hitler reference is suggesting Trump is on par with ďHitlerĒ. But letís not forget that before Hitler was ďHitlerĒ he was a democratically elected leader that used fear, nationalism, and scapegoating of minorities as tools to increase support among his followers, consolidate power, and crush his enemies. So no Trump is not ďHitlerĒ, but he has damn sure shown many tendencies common in ruthless strongmen from the recent past - including German Chancellor Adolf Hitler.

I personally think the only thing standing between Trump and mass atrocities is our system of checks and balances. However, these are the same checks and balances both Trump and a not insignificant portion of the Republican Party (Nunes, etc) are working to actively undermine and erode. While the rest sit by silently. Trump is not just stupid and ignorant - he is dangerous. He is a man that is not driven by any type of moral compass. He is driven strictly by power and greed. He expects and rewards only blind loyalty to himself. While he is a blubbering idiot in most regards he is a master showman and he has both a massively powerful delivery platform (Fox ďnewsĒ), religious cover (thanks evangelicals), and a more than willing and largely poorly educated and pissed off support base.

He is more than merely an idiot tarnishing the US presidency and the country itself. He is the embodiment of the worst and most dangerous impulses within us. He has access to the most destructive military capabilities the world has ever produced. He has a massive PR wing that spins ever topic in his favor. And fully 1/3 of our population follows him blindly and believes his every word. Iím sorry, but that is way more that just an idiot to be laughed at and disregarded.
What a crock of shit, respectfully speaking. When Trump passes laws restricting the rights of and even imprisoning law abiding citizens for no other reason than their ethnicity, come find me.

When he sends out packs of goons to intimidate, harass, and even murder people like Hitler did, come find me.

When he uses the government to seize the property of groups he doesnít like, Iíll be there protesting with you.

There is NO COMPARISON to what went on in 1930ís Germany to what is happening in this country now. Itís reckless fear mongering and hyperpartisanship to say otherwise.
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  #64  
Old 05-27-2018, 11:45 AM
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What a crock of shit, respectfully speaking. When Trump passes laws restricting the rights of and even imprisoning law abiding citizens for no other reason than their ethnicity, come find me.

When he sends out packs of goons to intimidate, harass, and even murder people like Hitler did, come find me.

When he uses the government to seize the property of groups he doesnít like, Iíll be there protesting with you.

There is NO COMPARISON to what went on in 1930ís Germany to what is happening in this country now. Itís reckless fear mongering and hyperpartisanship to say otherwise.
Is your position that Trump is morally incapable of doing such things as rounding up minorities or his enemies?

Is your position that our system of government would prevent such things from occurring?

Or is it that the current population of the US would be incapable of sitting by while such atrocities occur?

Iíd like to understand. It is obvious Trump has not yet risen to the level of ďHitlerĒ. Not sure how thatís even arguable. However your assertion that their is NO COMPARISON between events in 1930s Germany and the events in the current US appear to me to be naive.
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  #65  
Old 05-27-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Butter View Post
He is clearly not Hitler, he is more Mussolini.


Haha

Seriously though I think he is a huge narcissist. The guy makes everything about him. The way he threw the security services under the bus because they had the gall to investigate Russia trying to influence the campaign and his obvious connection to his investments. They treat the secret service like hired servants. Just kind of disgusted with him altogether. My buddy is a lobbyist in DC and he has told me some pretty ridiculous stories. I wasnít a fan of Hillary, but man I didnít want this.
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  #66  
Old 05-27-2018, 01:42 PM
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Is your position that Trump is morally incapable of doing such things as rounding up minorities or his enemies?
No. Trump isnít the monster heís made out to be. He was never a racist til he became president. Hell, he got awards from Jesse Jackson and the NAACP. Heís a loudmouth moron, for sure.

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Is your position that our system of government would prevent such things from occurring?
Yes, of course. How exactly would he enact oppressive policies? Executive order? Who would follow those orders? No one. In this era of social media and instant communication, heíd never get away with it.

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Or is it that the current population of the US would be incapable of sitting by while such atrocities occur?
Of course they wouldnít. Trump actually lost the popular vote. How the heck are the citizens of this country, most of whom didnít even vote for him, gonna sit around and let him get away with crap like that? Heck, a lot of republicans have turned on him already.

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Iíd like to understand. It is obvious Trump has not yet risen to the level of ďHitlerĒ. Not sure how thatís even arguable. However your assertion that their is NO COMPARISON between events in 1930s Germany and the events in the current US appear to me to be naive.
Germany in the 1930ís was a shell of its former state. The loss of WW1 and the Versailles treaty left that country in absolute ruins. In that environment, Hitlers nationalism was elixir for the people. They were casting about for a scapegoat for their predicament and Hitler offered the perfect sales pitch for a desperate people.

That is about as far away from the current situation in this country as is possible.

So no, I refuse to entertain the thought that Trump is anything like Hitler in any way, other than theyíre both heads of state.
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  #67  
Old 05-27-2018, 06:41 PM
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No. Trump isnít the monster heís made out to be. He was never a racist til he became president. Hell, he got awards from Jesse Jackson and the NAACP. Heís a loudmouth moron, for sure.
No, Trumps history of racism was not under scrutiny until he ran for for president. That doesnít at all mean it didnít exist. From the Trump companies being sued for racist housing policies to his embrace of birtherism there were plenty of examples of Trumps racist tendencies. Come on, do you think itís a coincidence he has been the party of the racist element in this country since his campaign started? And even if you donít believe Trump himself is a racist I donít in anyway see how you can argue he hasnít tactically aligned himself with racists and knowingly courted racist elements to his base. At best Trump is a tactical racist who fans the flames racism to further his causes.

My guess is you didnít address the issue of being above rounding up his political enemies because the ironic ďlock her up chantsĒ from his political rallies leave little doubt to that capability.



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Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc View Post
Yes, of course. How exactly would he enact oppressive policies? Executive order? Who would follow those orders? No one. In this era of social media and instant communication, heíd never get away with it.
I mostly agree here, although I donít believe itís nearly as guaranteed as you seem to think. Look no further than the rash of retirements from the GOP and the types of candidates they are running in many areas. Look at how far some candidates are willing to go to win their base. Here in Indiana the GOP primary boiled down to who loved and supported Trump more. And thatís supposed to give me comfort? Way to many Republicans stand idly by while Trump is actively trying to destroy the legitimate media, the Justice Department, and many of our intelligence services. Trumps message to his followers is you can only trust me the rest of the government is crooked. That doesnít seem dangerous or dictator like to you? Who is going to save us - guys like Nunes? The media like Fox News?



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Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc View Post
Of course they wouldnít. Trump actually lost the popular vote. How the heck are the citizens of this country, most of whom didnít even vote for him, gonna sit around and let him get away with crap like that? Heck, a lot of republicans have turned on him already.
His approval rating has been going up. The main republicans opposing him are either retiring or dying. Many of the new GOP candidates are more extreme and aligning themselves directly with him and his views. Your attitude is very common among Republicans I know - Trump is a laughable idiot. An embarrassment maybe, but not in anyway dangerous. They donít like him, but heís draining the swamp and exposing all the corruption in DC. Thatís what Hannity and Fox News tells them.


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Originally Posted by Hoopsdoc View Post
Germany in the 1930ís was a shell of its former state. The loss of WW1 and the Versailles treaty left that country in absolute ruins. In that environment, Hitlers nationalism was elixir for the people. They were casting about for a scapegoat for their predicament and Hitler offered the perfect sales pitch for a desperate people.

That is about as far away from the current situation in this country as is possible.

So no, I refuse to entertain the thought that Trump is anything like Hitler in any way, other than theyíre both heads of state.
As you point out things werenít as bad as in post WWI Germany. Not even close. But economic dissatisfaction was a large factor for Trump. And the MAGA slogan itself is designed to play on nationalism and a desire for the ďgood old daysĒ. Pretty similar themes to Hitler restoring Germany to its former glory, no? Trump has consistently proven that perception is more important than reality. Just because the social and economic situation isnít as dire doesnít mean many of the same factors and techniques arenít in play.

I personally try to refrain from bringing Hitler into a discussion of Trump simply because it side tracks the conversation. My initial post on the subject was mainly meant to say that most donít reference Hitler as a direct comparison but simply as an (admittedly extreme) example of the dangers of the types of actions employed by Trump and other men of his ilk. I just hope that too many donít blow off his racist words and actions as media creations as you seem to. Same with his attacks on the press, justice department, and intelligence agencies. The idea that ďgoodĒ people could believe itís all just scare tactics by the liberal media is terrifying to me. Theyíve already ratinoalized his pussy grabbing and racist remarks.
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  #68  
Old 05-27-2018, 10:04 PM
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No, Trumps history of racism was not under scrutiny until he ran for for president. That doesnít at all mean it didnít exist. From the Trump companies being sued for racist housing policies to his embrace of birtherism there were plenty of examples of Trumps racist tendencies. Come on, do you think itís a coincidence he has been the party of the racist element in this country since his campaign started? And even if you donít believe Trump himself is a racist I donít in anyway see how you can argue he hasnít tactically aligned himself with racists and knowingly courted racist elements to his base. At best Trump is a tactical racist who fans the flames racism to further his causes.

My guess is you didnít address the issue of being above rounding up his political enemies because the ironic ďlock her up chantsĒ from his political rallies leave little doubt to that capability.





I mostly agree here, although I donít believe itís nearly as guaranteed as you seem to think. Look no further than the rash of retirements from the GOP and the types of candidates they are running in many areas. Look at how far some candidates are willing to go to win their base. Here in Indiana the GOP primary boiled down to who loved and supported Trump more. And thatís supposed to give me comfort? Way to many Republicans stand idly by while Trump is actively trying to destroy the legitimate media, the Justice Department, and many of our intelligence services. Trumps message to his followers is you can only trust me the rest of the government is crooked. That doesnít seem dangerous or dictator like to you? Who is going to save us - guys like Nunes? The media like Fox News?





His approval rating has been going up. The main republicans opposing him are either retiring or dying. Many of the new GOP candidates are more extreme and aligning themselves directly with him and his views. Your attitude is very common among Republicans I know - Trump is a laughable idiot. An embarrassment maybe, but not in anyway dangerous. They donít like him, but heís draining the swamp and exposing all the corruption in DC. Thatís what Hannity and Fox News tells them.




As you point out things werenít as bad as in post WWI Germany. Not even close. But economic dissatisfaction was a large factor for Trump. And the MAGA slogan itself is designed to play on nationalism and a desire for the ďgood old daysĒ. Pretty similar themes to Hitler restoring Germany to its former glory, no? Trump has consistently proven that perception is more important than reality. Just because the social and economic situation isnít as dire doesnít mean many of the same factors and techniques arenít in play.

I personally try to refrain from bringing Hitler into a discussion of Trump simply because it side tracks the conversation. My initial post on the subject was mainly meant to say that most donít reference Hitler as a direct comparison but simply as an (admittedly extreme) example of the dangers of the types of actions employed by Trump and other men of his ilk. I just hope that too many donít blow off his racist words and actions as media creations as you seem to. Same with his attacks on the press, justice department, and intelligence agencies. The idea that ďgoodĒ people could believe itís all just scare tactics by the liberal media is terrifying to me. Theyíve already ratinoalized his pussy grabbing and racist remarks.
The attacks on the media started with Obama. He tried to revoke Foxís press credentials and would have succeeded had the rest of the media not thrown a fit about it. Thatís far FAR worse than anything Trump has done. All he does is talk and tweet like a blowhard.

I hated when people said Obama was destroying America and I hate it when people comp Trump to Hitler. Itís hyerpartisan, identity politics bullshit.

This is the greatest country in the world, by a large margin. And all of us, left right and center, are far closer in beliefs than those in power would have us believe.
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  #69  
Old 05-27-2018, 10:57 PM
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The attacks on the media started with Obama. He tried to revoke Foxís press credentials and would have succeeded had the rest of the media not thrown a fit about it. Thatís far FAR worse than anything Trump has done. All he does is talk and tweet like a blowhard.

I hated when people said Obama was destroying America and I hate it when people comp Trump to Hitler. Itís hyerpartisan, identity politics bullshit.

This is the greatest country in the world, by a large margin. And all of us, left right and center, are far closer in beliefs than those in power would have us believe.
Canít say Iím surprised - what Obama did is worse, Trump is just a blow hard causing no harm. Is it Obamaís fault Trump has been attacking the Justice Department and security agencies? Never mind, itís safe to say weíll never agree. You not seeing any danger in Trumps attacks - including on individual businesses owned by his adversaries (NFL, Amazon) - is a prime example of why I believe Trump is so dangerous. If I had to guess Iíd say you typically vote republican and agree with many of his policies. Itís a similiar rationalization I see in many of my family.

For the record, Iím typically an independent that has voted for people on both sides of the aisle. But I will not support any Trump Republicans.
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  #70  
Old 05-27-2018, 11:23 PM
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The attacks on the media started with Obama. He tried to revoke Foxís press credentials and would have succeeded had the rest of the media not thrown a fit about it.
When did he do that? I Googled but couldn't find it. I did find reminders of the many attacks on the press by Trump though.

And Fox News is partisan right wing propagandist garbage. Outside of maybe Shep Smith they SHOULD have any sort of credentials revoked.

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Thatís far FAR worse than anything Trump has done. All he does is talk and tweet like a blowhard.
It's far worse than blowing up the Iran deal for less than no reason? It's worse than using the presidency to make money illegally? It's worse than threatening NK with nuclear war? It's worse than nominating a torturer to head the CIA? It's worse than installing dipshits like Devos, Zinke, Mnuchin, Pruitt, etc to run their agencies into the ground? Worse than obstructing justice? Worse than laundering dirty money for the Russians? Are you paying attention? No you're clearly not. Pull your head out of your ass and look.

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I hated when people said Obama was destroying America and I hate it when people comp Trump to Hitler. Itís hyerpartisan, identity politics bullshit.
Well despite your big feelings on this subject, the comparison is valid on a number of fronts. Some of which have been pointed out to you. But your feelings - based argument so far has been a long - winded "nuh uh", which hopefully convinces no one.

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This is the greatest country in the world, by a large margin.
This might've been true at one time before the Boomer generation ruined it.

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And all of us, left right and center, are far closer in beliefs than those in power would have us believe.
No thanks. I don't want anything to do with the current right. You people have lost your fucking minds.
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