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  #21  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:01 AM
testcase448
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The old Dallas Dynasty was built around guys like Nate Newton.. a guard
Their 0-line just beat you into submission, ground you up..
I'd LOVE to see that in front of Luck.
Given the front sevens we'll face in AFC SOuth, we'd better invest in an O-line or have the ambulance idling to haul Luck off to another year of rehab.
We better be able to go bust them in the mouth from the first snap of the game, coaching, schemes, all that help. But we need big nasty TALENT in front of Luck
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  #22  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 View Post
Really, at this point, if the whole idea is that the Colts are investing heavily to protect Luck, they may as well find a RG and/or RT. It doesn't make sense to spend the 6th pick on a guard and leave 2/5 of your line totally inept.
Agree here.

I would not have taken a guard at #6. I would've taken Barkley over Nelson. And don't get me wrong, I think Nelson will be a very good player at worst. He's the most-hyped interior OL I can remember in a long time, he played great at ND. But outside of long-snappers and specialists I don't think there's a position in football that affects the entire team less than guard. I think the smarter pick would've been to get one of the top ILBs.

But the pick is done, we have Nelson now and he should be our best OL from day one. As GBB mentioned, you can't stop there. Get Hernandez or Williams early and really go all in on having a top NFL OL. You can't burn that high of a pick on a guard and then just leave uncertainty (Mewhort) or worse (the rest of our guys) at two other positions.

Get another high-end OL, then just take the best defensive players the rest of the way. There are still good players like Maurice Hurst, Harold Landry, Rasheem Green, Josh Jackson, Malik Jefferson, Lorenzo Carter, and BJ Hill available. Throw Shaqueem Griffin in there too.
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 View Post
I just can't get with an OG at 6.

Look, Nelson may well be a very good player. May be an All-Pro. There's no sure thing at any position, OL included (cough Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack cough), so I won't say for sure. I won't be surprised if he's very good.

But let's say Nelson is amazing and the RG/RT situation is still Slauson/Haeg or something like that. Luck is still in mortal danger, and defenses will still shut down your run game because it will be so damn easy to load up on the left side. Does a great OG really have any impact, in that situation?

Let's say Reich's scheme emphasizes quick passing decisions. Isn't an OG's impact neutralized in that situation?

I guess I just look at a lottery OG as a total luxury pick in today's NFL. Is the difference between Nelson and Hernandez or Wynn, for instance, really that big? Is Nelson really going to make more plays for the Colts than a Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds?

The only way you can sell me on an OG that high for the Colts is by telling me this is a cultural statement and trendsetter, and even that feels a bit elusive as a justification.

I still think Day 2 is set up to go very well, and again, none of this is saying Nelson will be a bad player. But I am just philosophically opposed to an OG at 6 the same way many of you are opposed to a RB at 6.
While I would have preferred Smith, you're underselling the importance of guards in this offense. There's no chance the Eagles win the Super Bowl last year without exceptional guard play.

You're outkicking your coverage in your comments above. Just say that they could have found good guards with less premium picks and leave it at that.
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:12 AM
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Two stories about Nelson I heard leading up to the draft:

1) Chubb was doing pre-draft workouts at the same place as Nelson and McGlinchey. They started talking about the NC State-ND game from last year. Nelson told Chubb that he noticed early in the game that State would stunt anytime a LB lined up in a certain position. Nelson communicated that to the coaches and the line. Chubb said it effectively took away half of their defensive game plan.

2) Nelson was doing some pre-draft interviews alongside Roquan Smith and another LB. When Nelson left the room, Smith and the other defender gave each other a look and starting talking about how in awe they were of how huge Nelson is.
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by omahacolt View Post
I am with gbb on this. Probably a good pick in terms of Nelson being good, but no way he is a difference maker for the team.
I acknowledge that I'm splitting hairs here, but he'll be a difference maker to some extent. For instance, I'm a hell of a lot more confident in 3rd/4th and short situations than I've ever been as a Colts fan. He'll be a beast in the run game and screen game.

But does that provide as much of a difference as a sideline to sideline force at LB would have done? No.
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  #26  
Old 04-27-2018, 09:53 AM
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Some comments from Reich:

Quote:
Reich saw a player solid in pass protection, but as good in run blocking as he’s ever seen coming out of the college game, especially when he pulled from his guard position and became a lead blocker off the edge.

“He was just productive in every kind of run scheme there is – in zone-run scheme, in gap-run scheme,” Reich said. “We charted him as a puller. I mean his productivity when pulling was just so far greater than anything we’ve ever seen.
This is some of what I was referring to in my response to GBB. We get caught up in thinking about protecting Luck and the scheme being about quick passes, but Reich wants to mix zone and power run concepts along with screens. Nelson will be great in all of that.

It's a completely rational pick even if I would have gone another direction.

Last edited by VeveJones007; 04-27-2018 at 09:55 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:12 AM
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https://twitter.com/DakotaCrawford_/...89641929338880

Just look at this gif. The recognition, mobility, and physicality are unreal. A perfect example of why thinking Nelson doesn't improve the other spots on the line is flatly incorrect.
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  #28  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:22 AM
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With Kelly and Nelson there might actually be a pocket for Luck to step up into when needed.
And when we need that 6" for the first down we've never been able to get consistently..
I'd rather have seen Chubb but this is a good pick
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  #29  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBigBlue88 View Post
I just can't get with an OG at 6.

Look, Nelson may well be a very good player. May be an All-Pro. There's no sure thing at any position, OL included (cough Jonathan Cooper or Chance Warmack cough), so I won't say for sure. I won't be surprised if he's very good.

But let's say Nelson is amazing and the RG/RT situation is still Slauson/Haeg or something like that. Luck is still in mortal danger, and defenses will still shut down your run game because it will be so damn easy to load up on the left side. Does a great OG really have any impact, in that situation?

Let's say Reich's scheme emphasizes quick passing decisions. Isn't an OG's impact neutralized in that situation?

I guess I just look at a lottery OG as a total luxury pick in today's NFL. Is the difference between Nelson and Hernandez or Wynn, for instance, really that big? Is Nelson really going to make more plays for the Colts than a Roquan Smith or Tremaine Edmunds?

The only way you can sell me on an OG that high for the Colts is by telling me this is a cultural statement and trendsetter, and even that feels a bit elusive as a justification.

I still think Day 2 is set up to go very well, and again, none of this is saying Nelson will be a bad player. But I am just philosophically opposed to an OG at 6 the same way many of you are opposed to a RB at 6.
I get what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree. The anti-Nelsons on this board have made some good arguments why the pick was bit of a reach. However, I don't think that he was a reach in the traditional sense that no one else would have selected him this high, as I suspect he would have been chosen no later than 8 had the Colts taken someone else.

As to your argument that the opposing team could neutralize his effect by focusing on other areas of the line, wouldn't that thinking apply equally to an OT selected this high? I only ask because it is fairly commonplace for OTs to be taken in the top 5 or 6 picks, and I've never heard anyone use your argument to say that's a mistake. So is your criticism more about selecting an offensive lineman rather than a defensive player? I realize that OTs generally have to deal with better athletes at DE and OLB, but there are lots of tough DTs around too and Nelson should provide an immediate upgrade to our anemic run game.

While I would have been more excited about selecting Chubb, I personally like that we are adding someone who is expected to start and play at a high level from day 1, as I think (barring further Luck problems) that we will compete in 2018.
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
I get what you are saying and I don't necessarily disagree. The anti-Nelsons on this board have made some good arguments why the pick was bit of a reach. However, I don't think that he was a reach in the traditional sense that no one else would have selected him this high, as I suspect he would have been chosen no later than 8 had the Colts taken someone else.

As to your argument that the opposing team could neutralize his effect by focusing on other areas of the line, wouldn't that thinking apply equally to an OT selected this high? I only ask because it is fairly commonplace for OTs to be taken in the top 5 or 6 picks, and I've never heard anyone use your argument to say that's a mistake. So is your criticism more about selecting an offensive lineman rather than a defensive player? I realize that OTs generally have to deal with better athletes at DE and OLB, but there are lots of tough DTs around too and Nelson should provide an immediate upgrade to our anemic run game.

While I would have been more excited about selecting Chubb, I personally like that we are adding someone who is expected to start and play at a high level from day 1, as I think (barring further Luck problems) that we will compete in 2018.
Yep. Ultimately the correct conclusion, but flawed logic getting there and supporting it.
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