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  #21  
Old 11-30-2022, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Racehorse View Post
Doyel loves to spew venom. He is right about a few things, but ignores a couple of obvious facts.

First, there is not as much yellow if Colts fans don't sell to opposing fans.

Second, the offense was designed by frank, and it cannot change as quickly as he suggests. We are stuck with Frank's scheme, but have a better motivator as HC now.
A lot of the local media seems toxic. Especially the radio guys, starting with Dakich.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2022, 10:13 PM
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It amazes me that people believe Reich suddenly forgot how to design / run an offense. Before this season Reich was either a HC or OC for 8 seasons. In 4 of them (50%) his teams were top 9 or better in pts scored. Yet you all believe the issue with the Colts offense is that it was Franks and not the cluster fuck of an OL coupled with a geriatric QB. Claim he had lost the team. Claim he couldn’t motivate them (although that’s a hell of an indictment on Ballard’s supposed culture focus). But claiming the offensive issues lie in the design instead of the OL and QB is fucking retarded.

And I’ll point out after the Raiders game the narrative was Saturday simplified the offense. It was discussed as how much smarter Saturday was than Reich. Now I’m seeing that’s not the case. It’s all back to being Reich - especially as the team is being called out for how simplistic its offense is.
Damned if you do damned if you don’t. It’s a talent issue and we need more of it. Not going to happen till the off season. Unless we fire Ballard too.
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  #23  
Old 12-01-2022, 01:09 AM
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I know to some of you this is blasphemy, but Luck totally fucked this franchise, I wish we had never drafted him!
I know what you mean. And in hindsight, with the early retirement, you could say that.

Really, though, what fucked us for the long haul was the Grigson/Pagano hires. Grigson was handed 10 picks @ #1 overall in 2012. Got some players there. But beyond that, you could count on one hand the number of good players he drafted in 4 seasons. And Chuck was Chuck. Luck carried both their asses and gave them more credit/time than deserved. They did not build or leave much talent around him and helped shell-shock him into early retirement.

I for one am fairly concerned that Irsay is about to take us down a similar path. The move from a lower energy type HC (Dungy, Caldwell, Reich) to more of a Ra-Ra type (Pagano, Saturday, whoever in the future). And the bigger worry for me is again going from a Polian type (Ballard) to another Grigson type.
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  #24  
Old 12-01-2022, 09:53 AM
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I wasn’t calling for Frank’s head, though the OL issues regarding Kelly, Nelson and Smith seemed to me most likely to be a coaching issue based upon the fact that these guys have shown themselves capable of playing at a very high level in the past. The decisions regarding Pryor and Pinter are mostly on Ballard (though I don’t doubt that Reich had some input/say on this too).

That said, once again I’ll point out an inconsistency for those who think Frank didn’t deserve to be fired, and Saturday didn’t deserve to be hired. You can't have both. The Colts are playing at least as well as they were under Frank. This suggests one of two things, either (1) Frank was coaching at a level which was at or below that of a wholly inexperienced, grossly unqualified coach, or (2) Saturday’s inexperience hasn’t harmed the Colts at all, and he’s performing at a level equivalent to an experienced coach.
Wasn’t their high level play in the past largely under the same coaches? Was Nelson and Smith so well coached in college they are just now losing their technique and understanding? Sorry I’m not buying it. 2/5 of the expected starting unit sucked. That has a huge affect on a unit required to work as one. Especially early with stunts that require trust and communication. There are likely other issues as well (Qs back, Kelly’s mental health, Covid), but coaching as the primary issue makes no sense.

Let’s see how this team finishes the season before we claim it’s just as good. Frank was 3-3-1 prior to being forced to start Ehlinger. He has a proven history of recovering from slow starts. We won’t know if the same would have happened this season. With all the new offensive Additions I’d expect improvement as the season progresses. We’ll see what we get.

And for the record, the Saturday hiring wasn’t bad because of Xs and Os. At the point you fire a coach mid season you pretty much are writing the season off. Losing every game from here on out is in the Colts best interest. In that respect I believe Saturday is a better choice than Reich. The Saturday hiring was bad because of the perception around the league. Coupled with the QB interference from Irsay, the Colts are a clown show. The top candidates aren’t looking for clown shows. It’s possible Irsay overcomes that with money, but I don’t see the Colts being regarded as a top destination for coaches in the off-season. Irsay and Ballard’s handling of QB position, Reich, and Saturday will be a huge reason why. Anyone who thinks guys that have spent their careers working their way up the ranks won’t be put off by the firing of Reich (after the QB debacle) and the hiring of a guy with no experience is simply wrong. That’s the issue with the situation.
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  #25  
Old 12-01-2022, 10:41 AM
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man, you totally missed my point. I was calling out Doyel for thinking we could install a whole new offense in-season. Teams just don't do that.
And I’m pointing out there is no need to install a whole new offense. The offense wasn’t the issue - the players are. A bad OL and a geriatric QB. The OL will likely continue to improve incrementally with Raimann taking his lumps. It’s simplistic based on the scaling down and the inability to throw deep due to the OL and QB - not the scheme.

And I’m curious, if you think the team needs to install a whole new offensive system and that will take time, then WTF was the point of firing Reich? If they need a new system AND can’t install it quickly then how do they win this season? Are you admitting that firing Reich was giving up on this season?

Regardless what is it you want the local media to write? What the fuck is the positive they should focus on? You want fluff pieces saying how Saturday is a coaching genius at 1-2? How the hiring of a coach with no experience and an OC with no experience straight out of high school are the wave of the future? This is a poorly constructed team, playing poorly, coached by talented yet inexperienced people, and ran by a guy meddling more and more. It’s a shit show and the coverage should be exactly that. Doyle’s job isn’t to provide positive PR for the team, it’s to accurately cover them. The piece seemed pretty accurate to me.
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  #26  
Old 12-01-2022, 01:23 PM
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And I’m pointing out there is no need to install a whole new offense. The offense wasn’t the issue - the players are. A bad OL and a geriatric QB. The OL will likely continue to improve incrementally with Raimann taking his lumps. It’s simplistic based on the scaling down and the inability to throw deep due to the OL and QB - not the scheme.

And I’m curious, if you think the team needs to install a whole new offensive system and that will take time, then WTF was the point of firing Reich? If they need a new system AND can’t install it quickly then how do they win this season? Are you admitting that firing Reich was giving up on this season?

Regardless what is it you want the local media to write? What the fuck is the positive they should focus on? You want fluff pieces saying how Saturday is a coaching genius at 1-2? How the hiring of a coach with no experience and an OC with no experience straight out of high school are the wave of the future? This is a poorly constructed team, playing poorly, coached by talented yet inexperienced people, and ran by a guy meddling more and more. It’s a shit show and the coverage should be exactly that. Doyle’s job isn’t to provide positive PR for the team, it’s to accurately cover them. The piece seemed pretty accurate to me.
I think it was. You can't fire your offensive coordinator and your offensive play calling head coach and expect things to improve. Doesn't work that way.
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  #27  
Old 12-01-2022, 02:44 PM
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Wasn’t their high level play in the past largely under the same coaches? Was Nelson and Smith so well coached in college they are just now losing their technique and understanding? Sorry I’m not buying it. 2/5 of the expected starting unit sucked. That has a huge affect on a unit required to work as one. Especially early with stunts that require trust and communication. There are likely other issues as well (Qs back, Kelly’s mental health, Covid), but coaching as the primary issue makes no sense.

Let’s see how this team finishes the season before we claim it’s just as good. Frank was 3-3-1 prior to being forced to start Ehlinger. He has a proven history of recovering from slow starts. We won’t know if the same would have happened this season. With all the new offensive Additions I’d expect improvement as the season progresses. We’ll see what we get.

And for the record, the Saturday hiring wasn’t bad because of Xs and Os. At the point you fire a coach mid season you pretty much are writing the season off. Losing every game from here on out is in the Colts best interest. In that respect I believe Saturday is a better choice than Reich. The Saturday hiring was bad because of the perception around the league. Coupled with the QB interference from Irsay, the Colts are a clown show. The top candidates aren’t looking for clown shows. It’s possible Irsay overcomes that with money, but I don’t see the Colts being regarded as a top destination for coaches in the off-season. Irsay and Ballard’s handling of QB position, Reich, and Saturday will be a huge reason why. Anyone who thinks guys that have spent their careers working their way up the ranks won’t be put off by the firing of Reich (after the QB debacle) and the hiring of a guy with no experience is simply wrong. That’s the issue with the situation.
I largely agree with your last paragraph, with the possible exception of writing the season off (With the loss to the Steelers, I'll admit its probably over, but this wasn't a "normal" midseason firing - Irsay even said it was Saturday or nobody else). Regardless, like you I absolutely hate the perception all of this has created, and the media is more than happy to goose the controversy every time something goes wrong. As far as coaches/GMs, it might be mostly irrelevant if (as I tend to believe) Ballard and Saturday will be back next year. Assistant coaches are the main concern in that scenario, though. Irsay seemed to have a pretty good track record up this year, and the guy has been exceedingly loyal and patient in the past, so hopefully any candidates can see past this situation and remember that.

As to your other points, I absolutely agree everything's a work in progress and we'll know much more by the end of the year. I was just railing (again) against the media and fans who have somehow already reached their verdicts on Reich and Saturday. I liked Reich honestly and was sad to see him go. I think he's a good coach and I hated how it all went down. But then Sirianni kind of irritated me with his "THIS IS FOR FRANK" garbage after his team underperformed and barely squeaked out a victory against Saturday and the Colts, and I started thinking, "are you really that dense to not understand how the Irsay might have been distressed at the team's performance?" It's not like Frank is a martyr or anything - whether you like it or not Sirianni, anyone in his position, particularly after the collapse last year, is going to be on thin ice.

Last edited by Chaka; 12-01-2022 at 02:47 PM.
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  #28  
Old 12-01-2022, 02:44 PM
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I think it was. You can't fire your offensive coordinator and your offensive play calling head coach and expect things to improve. Doesn't work that way.
I agree. I believe Reich was fired to satisfy the frustrated fans, not as any means of actual improvement. Reich is a good coach (not great). The primary issue is talent. Both Irsay and Ballard know that.
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  #29  
Old 12-01-2022, 06:44 PM
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And I’m pointing out there is no need to install a whole new offense. The offense wasn’t the issue - the players are. A bad OL and a geriatric QB. The OL will likely continue to improve incrementally with Raimann taking his lumps. It’s simplistic based on the scaling down and the inability to throw deep due to the OL and QB - not the scheme.

And I’m curious, if you think the team needs to install a whole new offensive system and that will take time, then WTF was the point of firing Reich? If they need a new system AND can’t install it quickly then how do they win this season? Are you admitting that firing Reich was giving up on this season?

Regardless what is it you want the local media to write? What the fuck is the positive they should focus on? You want fluff pieces saying how Saturday is a coaching genius at 1-2? How the hiring of a coach with no experience and an OC with no experience straight out of high school are the wave of the future? This is a poorly constructed team, playing poorly, coached by talented yet inexperienced people, and ran by a guy meddling more and more. It’s a shit show and the coverage should be exactly that. Doyle’s job isn’t to provide positive PR for the team, it’s to accurately cover them. The piece seemed pretty accurate to me.
Doyel has never posted anything positive about the team. Even when they were winning,
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:50 PM
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I agree. I believe Reich was fired to satisfy the frustrated fans, not as any means of actual improvement. Reich is a good coach (not great). The primary issue is talent. Both Irsay and Ballard know that.
Not talent. We have a line that is playing worse than their talent. We have a great defense even without Leonard, who is one of the best in the game. One could even make an argument that if he were playing, we would have three or four more wins, because he gets turnovers when we need them the most. His absence is hurting the team almost as much as having Ryan as QB. It's not like we are losing badly. Most games have been one possession scores, which Leonard flips in our favor with his ball punching skill.
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