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  #91  
Old 03-24-2019, 01:49 PM
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https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/...076164096?s=19
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  #92  
Old 03-25-2019, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by IndyNorm View Post
You're acting like the Colts signed him to a $100M contract. Even if there is no option on the 2nd year, 2 years at $24M is very reasonable for a player coming off of a 9 sack 5 FF season. Yes, there's some age and injury concerns, but not that concerning since he's played 27/32 games over the past 2 seasons and been very productive when doing so (9.5 sacks as well in '17).
You guys are missing my point. If you want to argue the merits of the signing based upon Houston's production, that's fine and I won't necessarily disagree. My concern was the bigger picture in that this seemed to be a departure from the prior strategy that Ballard has employed, and the dangers inherent in signing guys on the downside of their careers to big contracts.

As far as the cap issue, I was taking issue with those of you whose justification for the Houston signing was not his performance, but rather that we have plenty of cap space so we shouldn't worry about it. That is an undeniably bad strategy and silly. No matter who we sign or how much cap space we have at the time, the signing should be smart (again, I'm NOT saying that this wasn't a good signing, just taking issue with those who use our available cap space to justify the signing).
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  #93  
Old 03-25-2019, 06:34 AM
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I really don't care if we use all of this years cap space on decent to average guys on 2 year deals, that are really a 1 year contract. We will still have that space free the following year if those guys don't pan out. I do think it would be better to front load a few contract extensions early to help out with future cap space. But you could argue that we are overpaying our own guys now when we don't need to. The best option is probably what Ballard will do, and that is to mix and match both. Sign a few guys to short term deals, with little real salary cap impact down the line but also use up some of the cap with new deals for our own guys ahead of when we really need to do them.
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  #94  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:03 AM
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Chaka I really think you are making to big of a deal about one signing. I don't think that Ballard is deviating in any real sense from what he wants to do. It is not a huge contract in terms of years and the money isn't outrageous. He seems to be a good locker room guy. From a price point view he was the best player available. He is an upgrade from what we had last year.
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  #95  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:09 AM
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Even with signing Funchess and Houston I still see this offseason as incredibly conservative. I see no purpose in hand-wringing and no point in justifying anything. We still have a metric shit-ton of cap space and are probably done signing meaningful contracts. The cap will go up again and we'll have top 5 space again next season.

I'll have high expectations for Funchess and Houston but if they don't work out I'll be critical of the signing, not the money. Funchess is unproven, Houston might be too old. They are our marquee signings. The money won't matter, but how they produce (or don't) matters a lot.
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  #96  
Old 03-25-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by FatDT View Post
Even with signing Funchess and Houston I still see this offseason as incredibly conservative. I see no purpose in hand-wringing and no point in justifying anything. We still have a metric shit-ton of cap space and are probably done signing meaningful contracts. The cap will go up again and we'll have top 5 space again next season.

I'll have high expectations for Funchess and Houston but if they don't work out I'll be critical of the signing, not the money. Funchess is unproven, Houston might be too old. They are our marquee signings. The money won't matter, but how they produce (or don't) matters a lot.
And to go one step further, regardless of whether or not Funchess and Houston produce, the vast majority of improvement was always going to come from the progression of young players already on the roster.
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  #97  
Old 03-27-2019, 10:33 AM
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Some Houston contract details, per Holder:

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/st...94019817562112

Not fully guaranteed, but not a one year deal w/option either. Sorry Dam...
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  #98  
Old 03-27-2019, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
Some Houston contract details, per Holder:

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/st...94019817562112

Not fully guaranteed, but not a one year deal w/option either. Sorry Dam...
Being on the hook for $3.5 million isn't exactly the sort of thing that prevents a player from being released if a team needs to. This is essentially an option, which is what I said. If you look at sports where player options are a thing, they have buyouts. Think of it as a $9 million option with a $3.5 million buyout.
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i was wrong.
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  #99  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Being on the hook for $3.5 million isn't exactly the sort of thing that prevents a player from being released if a team needs to. This is essentially an option, which is what I said. If you look at sports where player options are a thing, they have buyouts. Think of it as a $9 million option with a $3.5 million buyout.
Yes, that's how I see it too.
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  #100  
Old 03-27-2019, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 View Post
Being on the hook for $3.5 million isn't exactly the sort of thing that prevents a player from being released if a team needs to. This is essentially an option, which is what I said. If you look at sports where player options are a thing, they have buyouts. Think of it as a $9 million option with a $3.5 million buyout.
I hesitate to respond at the risk of igniting a whole new debate, but I’ve got a number of issues with what you've said:

1) To begin with, your numbers are slightly off. The second year has $4.5 million guaranteed (according to Holder, the second year $1 million roster bonus is also guaranteed, though I’ll admit that’s kind of confusing). In sum, 100% of his 2019 salary is guaranteed, and 50% of his 2020 salary. Much larger than a typical buyout, as you characterized it.

2) This is nothing like an option – in fact, it’s the exact opposite. An option is for the team’s benefit. A buyout is for the player’s. There’s a reason buyout clauses aren’t very common in the NFL, given the risk of injury. We could end up paying $18.5 million for one year of a 30-year old Houston.

3) Further, $4.5 million (or even $3.5 million) is nothing to sneeze at, even in the cash-rich NFL. We just signed Geathers for $2.75 million, most of which isn’t even guaranteed.

4) Based upon Holder’s characterization, we’re tying up a minimum of $18.5 million (and up to $23M) in cap space on Houston – that’s an average of roughly 5-7% of our combined total cap space each of the two years on a single player. Such a large expenditure merits scrutiny.

In fairness, the one point you don’t bring up is that we don’t know what the guarantees apply to. I doubt Holder has seen the contract. As I’ve mentioned in other threads, the “guarantees” in some of these NFL contracts are only for injury, or only go into effect upon meeting certain criteria (being on the roster on a given date, etc.). By way of example, Colin Kaepernick signed a contract with the 49ers a few years ago that was reported to have had something like $60 million in guarantees, but a closer look at the language revealed that the “guarantees” were only effective if he was injured. So he could still be cut (and was cut) with limited cap impact.
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