So....thoughts of trading up for the #1 pick?

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by JAFF

Some facts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarterback_U

https://saturdaytradition.com/big-te...lege-football/

Justin fields may work out. But as a history OSU sucks when it comes to producing Qbs for the NFL

Here, let me answer the questions I posed:

Cal: Joe Kapp in 1969
Texas Tech: No one
Wyoming: No one
Clemson: No one
LSU: Bert Jones in 1976

I know Purdue is historically known for producing NFL starting caliber QBs, I'd be a pretty bad alum if I didn't. But Aidan O'Connell is not likely to be an NFL starter, and CJ Stroud is. As I said before, school pedigree has never been less relevant to evaluating QBs than it is today.

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by apballin

It’s the constant clean pocket and the shitty competition for me. Not saying he’s not gonna pan out but of the 2 I’d choose Levis he played better competition and was constantly under duress that’s more likely a simulation of what he’s gonna see at the next level

If you think Stroud had a constant clean pocket, that tells me you didn't actually watch him play. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone thinks highly of Paris Johnson Jr., he nearly got Stroud killed with regularity as OSU's starting LT.

As for Levis, he could be the next Josh Allen or the next Carson Wentz, but Carson Wentz is the much more likely outcome.

[apballin]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

If you think Stroud had a constant clean pocket, that tells me you didn't actually watch him play. For the life of me I don't understand why anyone thinks highly of Paris Johnson Jr., he nearly got Stroud killed with regularity as OSU's starting LT.

As for Levis, he could be the next Josh Allen or the next Carson Wentz, but Carson Wentz is the much more likely outcome.

Levi’s was sacked 58 times in 2 seasons

Stroud was sacked 25 times his entire college career ——25

Burrow in 2 seasons sacked 69 times

But he may be more like your boy Lawrence he was sacked all of 11 times his last year at Clemson

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by apballin

Levi’s was sacked 58 times in 2 seasons

Stroud was sacked 25 times his entire college career ——25

Burrow in 2 seasons sacked 69 times

But he may be more like your boy Lawrence he was sacked all of 11 times his last year at Clemson

This is why it's important to watch the games. Him only being sacked 25 times is a testament to his ability to sense and escape pressure, which he did consistently on the film of him that I watched. There were typically 4-6 plays per game where he could've been sacked, but instead rolled out of the pocket, kept his eyes downfield, and turned it into a positive pass play.

[Oldcolt]

I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.

[CletusPyle]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

This is why it's important to watch the games. Him only being sacked 25 times is a testament to his ability to sense and escape pressure, which he did consistently on the film of him that I watched. There were typically 4-6 plays per game where he could've been sacked, but instead rolled out of the pocket, kept his eyes downfield, and turned it into a positive pass play.

Are you Stroud's agent?

[YDFL Commish]

I don't prescribe to the theory that OSU can't produce a good QB, because of past failures.

But I do prescribe to the theory that somehow we are cursed with Ohio State players. This goes all the way back to Schlicther and continues with Quitcock, Doss, Gonzalez, Lewis, Campbell, Hooker, Mewhort, Hartsock. Did I miss anyone?

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

This is why it's important to watch the games. Him only being sacked 25 times is a testament to his ability to sense and escape pressure, which he did consistently on the film of him that I watched.

I'll back you up here. Not for Stroud in particular because I haven't yet watched enough. But generally, avoiding sacks is a QB skill you wouldn't be able to tell just from looking at numbers. Manning and Marino are by far the best QB's at avoiding sacks and it wasn't because they always had stellar protection.

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

I can not for the life of me see why in the hell it is relevant that a school has or hasn't produced great NFL QBs before. Schools don't have a great QB until they do. There is no magic that rubs off or doesn't just because you went to some specific school.

Conflating correlation with causation.

[JAFF]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

Here, let me answer the questions I posed:

Cal: Joe Kapp in 1969
Texas Tech: No one
Wyoming: No one
Clemson: No one
LSU: Bert Jones in 1976

I know Purdue is historically known for producing NFL starting caliber QBs, I'd be a pretty bad alum if I didn't. But Aidan O'Connell is not likely to be an NFL starter, and CJ Stroud is. As I said before, school pedigree has never been less relevant to evaluating QBs than it is today.

Cal: people go to Cal to be scientists, and they dont lower their ed standards for sports. Rodgers is smart enough and like Allen a better athlete than scouted.
But Cal has quite a list of nfl QBS: Steve Bartkowski, Vince Ferragamo (shared with Nebraska), Craig Morton, Aaron Rodgers and Joe Kapp

Texas Tech: Right coach but he left and they are back on track on a stepping stone for a good coaches next job. FYI, same problem at Purdue, before and after Tiller.

Wyoming: Ever been there? Its farm kid heaven, and closer to God at 7000+ ft above sea level. Allen was a star student in FFA, and from a small rural school, it was man , moment, history. BTW, if Tiller stays at Wyo, he would have had Brees to start, a list of very good athletes becoming good Qbs. Much like BYU, which has produced more NFL Qbs than OSU.

Clemson: new coach with new offense to take on ACC and old time coaching. Same with LSU and the SEC. Alabama had Nameth and Stabler, how many great throwing Qbs have they developed since then?

OSU has been a dominant program for two reasons, they can run the ball and they can stop the run. OSU typically have very good O and D linemen. Which attracts really good running backs. And when the weather gets crappy in October and November, you win by running the ball.

Purdue: many quarterbacks, most grads in the NFL. No national championships. How many great running backs have come from Purdue? What ever level, you win games and championships by running the ball. Its how coaches keep their jobs.

Look, college programs are not designed to be farm teams for the NFL. College teams can succeed by putting a great athlete at QB and giving him two option pass plays and then let them be athletes and run.

Teams dont need a great overall athletic QB to win. He needs:
1. Brains, think on the fly, teachable, accepts tough coaching
2. Arm talent. Accuracy
3. Leads by example
4. Courage, learn from mistakes

How does Stroud grade on the above

[Dam8610]

Originally Posted by JAFF

Cal: people go to Cal to be scientists, and they dont lower their ed standards for sports. Rodgers is smart enough and like Allen a better athlete than scouted.
But Cal has quite a list of nfl QBS: Steve Bartkowski, Vince Ferragamo (shared with Nebraska), Craig Morton, Aaron Rodgers and Joe Kapp

Texas Tech: Right coach but he left and they are back on track on a stepping stone for a good coaches next job. FYI, same problem at Purdue, before and after Tiller.

Wyoming: Ever been there? Its farm kid heaven, and closer to God at 7000+ ft above sea level. Allen was a star student in FFA, and from a small rural school, it was man , moment, history. BTW, if Tiller stays at Wyo, he would have had Brees to start, a list of very good athletes becoming good Qbs. Much like BYU, which has produced more NFL Qbs than OSU.

Clemson: new coach with new offense to take on ACC and old time coaching. Same with LSU and the SEC. Alabama had Nameth and Stabler, how many great throwing Qbs have they developed since then?

OSU has been a dominant program for two reasons, they can run the ball and they can stop the run. OSU typically have very good O and D linemen. Which attracts really good running backs. And when the weather gets crappy in October and November, you win by running the ball.

Purdue: many quarterbacks, most grads in the NFL. No national championships. How many great running backs have come from Purdue? What ever level, you win games and championships by running the ball. Its how coaches keep their jobs.

Look, college programs are not designed to be farm teams for the NFL. College teams can succeed by putting a great athlete at QB and giving him two option pass plays and then let them be athletes and run.

My point was that school pedigree is not relevant to evaluating present day college prospects. Yes, OSU has historically been a run first program, but they haven't been that since Urban Meyer took over, and they certainly haven't been that under Ryan Day. Stroud is not just an athlete they stuck at the QB position that can't read defenses. If he were his rushing numbers would be much better and his passing numbers much worse.

Originally Posted by JAFF

Teams dont need a great overall athletic QB to win. He needs:
1. Brains, think on the fly, teachable, accepts tough coaching
2. Arm talent. Accuracy
3. Leads by example
4. Courage, learn from mistakes

How does Stroud grade on the above

1) I have no idea about how he "accepts tough coaching", I don't have access to Ryan Day or his staff. I haven't heard them say anything bad about him though, and his draft stock would likely fall if they did. As for the rest, the best attribute of a QB I can come up with based on your description is ability to read a defense and pre-snap reads. He does those things well for a rookie NFL QB. He uses his eyes effectively to move coverage favorably.

2) Stroud and Young are hands down the two most accurate QBs in the class. Stroud put on an arm talent masterclass against Georgia, I left a video link earlier in the thread if you care to go watch it.

3) Something that's not exactly ascertainable in game film, but I will say once again in the Georgia game he was down several players against the best defense in college football and ended up using his athleticism to put his team in position to win at the end. This was in part because Georgia's defense was so scared of him beating them with his arm that they forgot to account for him taking off out of the pocket.

4) I've seen him stand in against a pass rush and make throws knowing he was going to take a shot. He also quite frequently escapes pressure and turns a potential negative play into a positive one. He certainly doesn't shrink under pressure. He also doesn't turn the ball over much and protects it well.