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  #11  
Old 05-21-2019, 07:58 PM
YDFL Commish YDFL Commish is offline
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Omaha and Jaff, I think that you are both wrong.

There are levels of commitment in any job. The NFL is no exception. I can't tell you how many levels that is, but I imagine they can range of from just making a team and getting a paycheck to being the baddest ass MOFO at your position in the NFL.

That level of commitment can come from many different places and change throughout a players career.

I believe that Ballard is trying to draft guys that have the highest level of commitment already instilled in them, that way he doesn't need to hang on to aging veterans who's skills have diminished just for the sake of having veteran leadership.

Remember the Grigson mindset after he got some troubled young players, was to sign solid veteran leaders. How did that work out?
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  #12  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:06 PM
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I think it all boils down to coaching. Coaches can make an impact with rookies and veterans alike.
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  #13  
Old 05-21-2019, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YDFL Commish View Post
Omaha and Jaff, I think that you are both wrong.

There are levels of commitment in any job. The NFL is no exception. I can't tell you how many levels that is, but I imagine they can range of from just making a team and getting a paycheck to being the baddest ass MOFO at your position in the NFL.

That level of commitment can come from many different places and change throughout a players career.

I believe that Ballard is trying to draft guys that have the highest level of commitment already instilled in them, that way he doesn't need to hang on to aging veterans who's skills have diminished just for the sake of having veteran leadership.

Remember the Grigson mindset after he got some troubled young players, was to sign solid veteran leaders. How did that work out?
Troubled young players? Who were they?



How am I wrong? They are paid to do a job. They should do it. The nfl is like any industry. Some dudes get hired but don’t have what it takes.
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2019, 06:26 AM
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There is a famous Chuck Noll quote, "If I have to motivate you, I am going to fire you..."
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  #15  
Old 05-22-2019, 09:46 AM
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Veterans are only important when they have been on the team for a long time, and have become leaders in the locker room and a voice for the team to the coaches.
You can't expect veteran free agents to come in and take on that role.
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2019, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
I completely disagree with this. Seeing how players take care of their bodies, study tape, etc is the kinds of things guys pickup from vets. Hilton learning tricks of the trade from Reggie is an example of veteran presence. Wilson’s attitude change after being mentored a little by Mitchell is an example of veteran presence. Guys can learn a lot from someone that’s “been there and done that.” I’d agree that a team needs some talent to get the most from it, but if your roster is so shit that there is no one capable of improving then the vets are probably your best players anyway.
I agree with this to a certain extent, but those who expect the veteran players to take younger players under their wing and groom them to eventually take the veteran player’s job is just counterintuitive to me. That’s not to say that there aren’t a few players who are just natural teachers, and are supportive and encouraging to younger players, but my operating assumption is that the vast majority of veteran players are highly competitive and mostly self-interested.

Look at Peyton Manning – a guy who had no reason to ever think his job was in jeopardy (until, of course, he got seriously injured), yet he insisted on playing every down in most games, even in blowouts. Sure, I suppose it would be valuable for a younger player to watch Manning prepare (though as I type this I can't think of any Manning backups who ever amounted to anything, so the value of this is debatable), but I wouldn't expect these guys to nurture the younger players.
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Old 05-22-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
I agree with this to a certain extent, but those who expect the veteran players to take younger players under their wing and groom them to eventually take the veteran player’s job is just counterintuitive to me. That’s not to say that there aren’t a few players who are just natural teachers, and are supportive and encouraging to younger players, but my operating assumption is that the vast majority of veteran players are highly competitive and mostly self-interested.

Look at Peyton Manning – a guy who had no reason to ever think his job was in jeopardy (until, of course, he got seriously injured), yet he insisted on playing every down in most games, even in blowouts. Sure, I suppose it would be valuable for a younger player to watch Manning prepare (though as I type this I can't think of any Manning backups who ever amounted to anything, so the value of this is debatable), but I wouldn't expect these guys to nurture the younger players.
I hear what you are saying, although I think at a position, say DE or DT, where there is a rotation unlike your Peyton example, there would be a lot more sharing of how to prepare your body, how to watch film, how to counter certain blocks, etc... That may just be my mental movie of it though. You're certainly correct that anyone in the NFL is super competitive and will, and should, always look out for their own job first. I think that some of those jobs are just different and lend themselves to more exchanges of information.
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  #18  
Old 05-22-2019, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by omahacolt View Post
Troubled young players? Who were they?



How am I wrong? They are paid to do a job. They should do it. The nfl is like any industry. Some dudes get hired but don’t have what it takes.
You may not be entirely wrong. But, you are making it much to much of a black and white issue.

What level of performance should get a guy/player fired? It's rare for an employee who does his job, but doesn't go above and beyond to get fired.

I would say it's somewhat the same in the NFL, until somebody comes along and plays better than you and take your job away.
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