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  #191  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
I agree to an extent. I think Ballard will be very conscious of opportunities to add comp picks. However I’m not under the impression he will be anywhere near NE in letting players walk. His comments have all been about prioritizing home grown players. I see Ballard as being much more in the Polian mode than the Belichick mode.
Polian was better at drafting. Belichick was better at manipulating the roster with spare parts and castoffs in free agency. If Ballard can become a hybrid of the two, minus the cheating, we will have our very own dynasty here.

Note: I am not saying that he will, but that I think his goal is to emulate BB's approach to building a roster, but will be a better drafter.
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  #192  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
I'll also say this: there is a fundamental difference in how Ballard is constructing this roster compared to Polian. Ballard is emphasizing inside-out, particularly on the line of scrimmage.

For sake of comparison, here's the draft capital (1st & 2nd rounders) Polian/Ballard invested in the lines early in their tenures. Note that this includes Polian's first 7 years compared to Ballard's first 2 years:

OL: 0/2 (Nelson, Smith)
DL: 2 (Freeney/Tripplett)/2 (Lewis/Turay, though I expect this to be 4 in six weeks)

Ballard has also made it an emphasis to add former high draft picks to the DL (Sheard-2nd, Hunt-2nd, Ward-2nd).
When Polian first got here he went out and got FA's like Bratzke and Cota to shore up the talent differential. He only went solely to the draft after they signed their star players to contracts and did not have as much cap room. That strategy eventually failed because they were not drafting as well. Would Polian have sat on a hundred million in this case especially after getting spanked in the playoffs?
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  #193  
Old 03-14-2019, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
Chaka’s whole post that I replied to is about how Ballard is maintaining flexibility to pay the home grown guys proven in the Colts system. I agree with him that that’s Ballard’s plan. But NE is specifically known for not investing heavily in their home grown talent. They are known for getting a players best years and letting someone else pay them in their decline.
I really don’t think that’s a completely fair representation of my position. The point is to get the most bang for your buck. First and foremost, you draft well. Second, in the free agent market, you identify undervalued players and sign them. Third, when you have to spend lots of money (which you do under the cap rules), accept that you're probably not going to get good value, so spend the money in a way that’s most efficient and likely to provide a solid return – which ideally means signing your own players who are largely known quantities.

I’ll acknowledge that this might not necessarily be the fastest way to immediate improvement (though last year success might argue against this), but it is probably the most rational way and is a sustainable model for long term success. The alternative - filling holes with expensive free agents – is risky, hasn’t proven to successful in the NFL and is not good for the long term success of the organization. Yes, the Patriots haven’t been great drafters and have signed lots of free agents (but, like the Colts, usually not the top tier ones), but they have a…hmmm, let’s say “unique”… coach and QB, and perhaps that had a little to do with it. I might even limit that to “coach” because the Patriots played well even when Brady was out for a season, and every Patriots coordinator who leave seems to fall flat on his face.

Look, unless you are advocating a balls-out approach every season – spending every penny of cap space to sign free agents and trading every developmental prospect to gain an accomplished asset to win NOW without regard to the future– you are compromising to some degree. Where we draw that line is the difference. I look very long term. I lived through the Manning years, as it appears you did as well, and I enjoyed that period very much even if we didn’t win the SB as much as I though we should. It was just fun. I think we can return to those days, and remain hitting on all cylinders for many years, and hopefully wins lots of SBs. But in a sport where a single bad day during the playoffs will end your season, you have to accept that sometimes you won’t win the SB even though you are the better team and should have.
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  #194  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
When Polian first got here he went out and got FA's like Bratzke and Cota to shore up the talent differential. He only went solely to the draft after they signed their star players to contracts and did not have as much cap room. That strategy eventually failed because they were not drafting as well. Would Polian have sat on a hundred million in this case especially after getting spanked in the playoffs?
That’s fair context, but my point was specific to the draft. Until Ugoh (bleh), Polian didn’t invest a single pick in the top 2 rounds to the OL. And one of those early 1st/2nd rounders on the DL was the great Larry Triplett. Ballard clearly deviates from Polian’s approach in that regard.
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  #195  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
I’ll acknowledge that this might not necessarily be the fastest way to immediate improvement (though last year success might argue against this), but it is probably the most rational way and is a sustainable model for long term success. The alternative - filling holes with expensive free agents – is risky, hasn’t proven to successful in the NFL and is not good for the long term success of the organization.
With a true franchise QB in place turn arounds don't take long. Its the single most important factor in winning. We've seen that now twice. If the Colts didn't have Luck I'd be much more on board with Ballard's approach.

You keep talking about the alternative to Ballard's approach being high priced free agents, but the one I seem to value more than you and Ballard is veteran free agents. Not every player needs to be in his mid twenties.


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Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
Look, unless you are advocating a balls-out approach every season – spending every penny of cap space to sign free agents and trading every developmental prospect to gain an accomplished asset to win NOW without regard to the future– you are compromising to some degree. Where we draw that line is the difference. I look very long term.
I'm not advocating a balls out approach every season and I agree its a matter of degree. My focus would pretty much always be on this year and next. You obviously look much further out. I prefer a higher risk for what I see as a higher reward.
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  #196  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Chromeburn View Post
When Polian first got here he went out and got FA's like Bratzke and Cota to shore up the talent differential. He only went solely to the draft after they signed their star players to contracts and did not have as much cap room. That strategy eventually failed because they were not drafting as well. Would Polian have sat on a hundred million in this case especially after getting spanked in the playoffs?
This is basically the approach that I would have preferred Ballard have taken last year - shore up the talent level with mid tier veteran free agents and let them compete with the young talent you begin adding through the draft. It was also the approach Grigson took that got the team in an AFCCG much, much sooner than anyone thought. And that was while he completely sucked as a talent evaluator. I know several will say "see Grigson did it and it obviously failed", but it wasn't the method that failed, it was Grigson's execution. If you can't evaluate talent you are going to fail no matter which path you take.
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  #197  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
That’s fair context, but my point was specific to the draft. Until Ugoh (bleh), Polian didn’t invest a single pick in the top 2 rounds to the OL. And one of those early 1st/2nd rounders on the DL was the great Larry Triplett. Ballard clearly deviates from Polian’s approach in that regard.
It's a different game.
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  #198  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:40 AM
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It's a different game.
The game changes but keeping the trenches restocked year after year has been a constant.

Go back as far as you want and a majority of the SB winning teams had solid DLine and Oline. Add an elite QB and you have the recipe to win it all.
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  #199  
Old 03-15-2019, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by VeveJones007 View Post
That’s fair context, but my point was specific to the draft. Until Ugoh (bleh), Polian didn’t invest a single pick in the top 2 rounds to the OL. And one of those early 1st/2nd rounders on the DL was the great Larry Triplett. Ballard clearly deviates from Polian’s approach in that regard.
I like Ballard’s attention on the lines. I think Polian’s drafted too many skill players early. But it was also a different time in football. You could find oline later in the draft and that’s what teams did. You still can now. Patriots center was a UDFA and he started day one and never gave up the spot. Back then you could develop linemen. But now, all that practice and development time has been cut back substantially. Players have to do it in the off season. It has really hurt oline play around the league. Polian might have a different strategy today.
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  #200  
Old 03-15-2019, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by rm1369 View Post
This is basically the approach that I would have preferred Ballard have taken last year - shore up the talent level with mid tier veteran free agents and let them compete with the young talent you begin adding through the draft. It was also the approach Grigson took that got the team in an AFCCG much, much sooner than anyone thought. And that was while he completely sucked as a talent evaluator. I know several will say "see Grigson did it and it obviously failed", but it wasn't the method that failed, it was Grigson's execution. If you can't evaluate talent you are going to fail no matter which path you take.
Yeah I know. The problem with Grigson was his drafting and terrible moves not the strategy. He built the team in a strange way. He idolized Johnson’s Dallas line and wanted to construct it with low picks. That is harder to do now because of the practice rule changes. He also had a 3-4 defense and didn’t invest in the linebackers. That is the heart of a 3-4, they are your playmakers. You need a talented Mike and a talented rusher, a good Sam is nice also. But he went bargain bin hunting for the positions. You can’t ignore the position group your strategy is centered on. It was maddening.

Then when his crappy drafts started snowballing he kept going back to the FA bin. But he wanted the old vets and got s bunch of 30+ guys. It’s ok to have some Davy vets, but you need to surround them with some speed and youth. Anyway he sucked.
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