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  #11  
Old 02-01-2022, 02:07 PM
Oldcolt Oldcolt is offline
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Have to disagree about Russell. The object of the game is to win. Period. Dude played in 10 games 7 and a total of 26 or 27 deciding series games. He won every single one of them. He is the single greatest team player ever if what you want is for your team to win.
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Old 02-01-2022, 03:25 PM
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I have to disagree about Russell. The object of the game is to win. Period. Dude played in 10 games 7 and a total of 26 or 27 deciding series games. He won every single one of them. He is the single greatest team player ever if what you want is for your team to win.


o


That argument is somewhat akin to the argument of Tom Brady necessarily being the greatest quarterback of all-time. Wilt Chamberlain was such a dominant force in pro basketball, they changed the rules of the game to stop him. With Michael Jordan (for example), they did the opposite ...... they changed the rules of the game TO ENHANCE AND MARKET HIM MORE. Bill Russell won many more championships than did Chamberlain did (11 to 2), but he ALWAYS had a vastly superior team surrounding him, save for the 1966-67 and 1967-68 seasons when Wilt played for the Philadelphia 76ers. If you took Bill Russell off of the Celtics teams that he played for and replaced him with an average center, they would not have won 11 championships in 13 years like they did, but they would have won at least 6 or 7. They would not have won 12 conference championships in 13 years like they did, but they would have won at least 8 or 9, possibly even 10. If you took Wilt Chamberlain off of some of those Philadelphia Warriors and San Francisco Warriors teams that he played for early in his career and replaced him with an average center, they would not have come anywhere close to competing for a championship as they did. It is reminiscent of what happened to Tom Brady's and Peyton Manning's teams when they each missed an entire year due to injury. In 2008, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as their starting quarterback when Tom Brady had an injured knee. When Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season with a neck injury, they went 2-14 with Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky at quarterback.

Also, if those rules that were changed with the sole intent of stopping Chamberlain from being so utterly dominant, I'm pretty sure that Wilt's teams would have won more than the 2 world championships and 6 conference championships that they did during his 14-year career.

As is the case with Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, I try to always look at the entire context of the goings-on of a player's career before necessarily slapping the GOAT tag on them.

***************************************

On the side of an argument FOR Russell being the greatest basketball player ever, he was the one constant on the teams that won 11 world championships and 12 conference championships in his 13-year career ...... in the early part of his career, Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman were the starting guards in the back court. When they retired, Sam Jones and KC Jones took over the starting guard jobs, and the Celtics kept on winning. In the front court, Tom Heinsohn and Jim Loscutoff played alongside Russell early in Russell's career. When those 2 players retired, Tom Sanders and John Havlicek joined Russell in the front court, and the Celtics kept on winning.

In some ways, Russell's constant presence over such a long period of time is somewhat analogous to Jim Palmer's constant presence in the Baltimore Orioles' starting pitching rotation between the mid-1960's and the early 1980's ...... early in Palmer's career, he was flanked by two outstanding left-handers in the starting rotation (Mike Cuellar and Dave McNally.) Later in Palmer's career, he again was flanked by two outstanding left-handers in the starting rotation (Mike Flanagan and Scott McGregor. But through it all, there was always Palmer anchoring that incredible starting rotation. Like Jim Palmer, Bill Russell was the one constant presence in the Celtics' dynasty during his long and distinguished career.

o
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2022, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles View Post
o


That argument is somewhat akin to the argument of Tom Brady necessarily being the greatest quarterback of all-time. Wilt Chamberlain was such a dominant force in pro basketball, they changed the rules of the game to stop him. With Michael Jordan (for example), they did the opposite ...... they changed the rules of the game TO ENHANCE AND MARKET HIM MORE. Bill Russell won many more championships than did Chamberlain did (11 to 2), but he ALWAYS had a vastly superior team surrounding him, save for the 1966-67 and 1967-68 seasons when Wilt played for the Philadelphia 76ers. If you took Bill Russell off of the Celtics teams that he played for and replaced him with an average center, they would not have won 11 championships in 13 years like they did, but they would have won at least 6 or 7. They would not have won 12 conference championships in 13 years like they did, but they would have won at least 8 or 9, possibly even 10. If you took Wilt Chamberlain off of some of those Philadelphia Warriors and San Francisco Warriors teams that he played for early in his career and replaced him with an average center, they would not have come anywhere close to competing for a championship as they did. It is reminiscent of what happened to Tom Brady's and Peyton Manning's teams when they each missed an entire year due to injury. In 2008, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as their starting quarterback when Tom Brady had an injured knee. When Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season with a neck injury, they went 2-14 with Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky at quarterback.

Also, if those rules that were changed with the sole intent of stopping Chamberlain from being so utterly dominant, I'm pretty sure that Wilt's teams would have won more than the 2 world championships and 6 conference championships that they did during his 14-year career.

As is the case with Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, I try to always look at the entire context of the goings-on of a player's career before necessarily slapping the GOAT tag on them.

***************************************

On the side of an argument FOR Russell being the greatest basketball player ever, he was the one constant on the teams that won 11 world championships and 12 conference championships in his 13-year career ...... in the early part of his career, Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman were the starting guards in the back court. When they retired, Sam Jones and KC Jones took over the starting guard jobs, and the Celtics kept on winning. In the front court, Tom Heinsohn and Jim Loscutoff were played alongside Russell early in Russell's career. When those 2 players retired, Tom Sanders and John Havlicek joined Russell in the front court, and the Celtics kept on winning.

In some ways, Russell's constant presence over such a long period of time is somewhat analogous to Jim Palmer's constant presence in the Baltimore Orioles' starting pitching rotation between the mid-1960's and the early 1980's ...... early in Palmer's career, he was flanked by two outstanding left-handers in the starting rotation (Mike Cuellar and Dave McNally.) Later in Palmer's career, he again was flanked by two outstanding left-handers in the starting rotation (Mike Flanagan and Scott McGregor. But through it all, there was always Palmer anchoring that incredible starting rotation. Like Jim Palmer, Bill Russell was the one constant presence in the Celtics' dynasty during his long and distinguished career.

o
Here is my take on naming GOATs. In the NBA, you have five starters, and they play both ways. It is easier to name a GOAT based on winning, because he has a greater impact than other athletes in team sports. In baseball, you have 9/10 starters, and most play both ways, but you cannot have a single GOAt, but a pitching GOAT and a hitting GOAT. Football is even worse, when it comes to individual impact, because there are 22 starters, and half do not play half the game. Yes, the QB handles the ball more, and is in charge of more, but after his drive ends, he sits and hopes for the defense to help him out. Some QBs have had more help (Brady and Bradshaw) than others (Manning and Marino) from their defense.

I typed this twice, because I hit a wrong button the first time, and my lengthier post was lost. I hope this all makes sense.
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  #14  
Old 02-01-2022, 04:19 PM
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By the way, here is my rankings of all-time NBA players:

1. Magic (the only player I have ever seen dominate a game from any of the five positions)
2. Jordan
3. Bird
4. Wilt
5. Kareem
6. Russell
7. Kobe
8. Hakeem
9. Shaq
10. Maybe Lebron?
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Old 02-01-2022, 05:31 PM
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Fun argument. I will also point out the Russell won the two NCAA championships. Chamberlain won shit at Kansas. The man was a winner. Period. His last year they finish 4th, Lakers have Chamberlain to and an all time squad. Still lose to the manís team. Nobody has ever been the defensive presence he was, he blocked shots and kept possession of them all the time. Love the argument but he is my (and Bill Walton among others) GOAT. All these guy could easily be your GOAT. Russell is mine because I was a kid when he was in his prime and I loved the manís game
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Old 02-01-2022, 09:28 PM
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Fun argument. I will also point out the Russell won the two NCAA championships. Chamberlain won shit at Kansas. The man was a winner. Period. His last year they finish 4th, Lakers have Chamberlain to and an all time squad. Still lose to the manís team. Nobody has ever been the defensive presence he was, he blocked shots and kept possession of them all the time. Love the argument but he is my (and Bill Walton among others) GOAT. All these guy could easily be your GOAT. Russell is mine because I was a kid when he was in his prime and I loved the manís game
If Walton had stayed healthy, he would have been in my top ten.
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Old 02-02-2022, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Racehorse View Post
By the way, here is my rankings of all-time NBA players:

1. Magic (the only player I have ever seen dominate a game from any of the five positions)
2. Jordan
3. Bird
4. Wilt
5. Kareem
6. Russell
7. Kobe
8. Hakeem
9. Shaq
10. Maybe Lebron?
Pretty much agree, I would reverse Jordan and Magic. Jordan was the greatest basketball player I ever saw. And LeBron is not in my top ten either, replace him with Curry. Outside of that you are right on the money brother.

Gotta say this, FUCK LeBron James!!!!!!! I hate all sports teams from LA. Go Bengals.
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Old 02-03-2022, 03:10 AM
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I did find it mildly amusing that Brady's retirement announcement upset little Bobby Kraft.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/pat...etirement-post


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Joining NBC Sports Boston Sports Tonight on Tuesday, former Patriots linebacker Ted Johnson said he was told Robert Kraft threw a "temper tantrum" after reading Brady's Instagram post, which included shout-outs of virtually every member of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers organization (as well as his body coach, his agents and his family) but didn't reference the Patriots.

"I was told earlier tonight that ... it was an unpleasant day today at the executive offices in Foxboro, and that Robert Kraft initially when he first heard the news was very upset," Johnson said.

"He was screaming and he was yelling and there was ... a temper tantrum that he threw after he read Brady's IG post. So, he was not happy about it in Foxboro, and I'm not surprised."
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Old 02-03-2022, 07:32 AM
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I did find it mildly amusing that Brady's retirement announcement upset little Bobby Kraft.

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/pat...etirement-post
I noticed it, too. Cheats fans are playing it off, but we know the truth. It was an intentional slight.
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Old 02-04-2022, 01:32 PM
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o


I don't hate Brady, I hate the fact that he is overrated ...... I think that he is one of the greatest QB's of all-time, as opposed to necessarily and automatically being anointed THE greatest QB of all-time because of his 10 Super Bowl appearances and 7 Super Bowl wins.

o
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