What are the odds we have a season?

[HoosierinFL]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Science changes when new facts emerge. Europe also was told no mask initially. When evidence that masks worked became obvious they changed their policy without any political issues. We have issues because the guy running the country needs division and doesn't put his full weight behind the wearing of masks.

Also at the time, medical masks were in very short supply, and they were worried that people hoarding them would cause a shortage for front-line personnel.

[HoosierinFL]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

While scientists are learning more about the virus itself everyday, masks have been around for centuries if not millennia. You would think epidemiologists would have had data on the uses of masks in similar types of virus outbreaks to make a better recommendation than urging people not to wear them. At the very least they should have been able to put together Asia=masks=minimal outbreak, Europe=no masks=shit hitting the fan.

Anyway, I agree that Trump is part of the problem and that anti-maskers are ricockulous. I was just answering the question as to how mask wearing became politicized in the first place.

Partly the issue was that in the beginning they had no idea there was symptom-free transmission, meaning people could be positive with the virus, not experience symptoms, and still transmit this virus.
The advise originally was "if you are sick, quarantine yourself and wear a mask if you have to go out" which was before they discovered symptomless transmission.

Oh and you're wrong about the history of masks. Up until the early 1900s, doctors did not wear masks nor did they wash their hands, and were offended when it was suggested that they should do both.

The closest things to masks before then were those weird bird masks they wore during the plague, but that was just based on the "bad air" myth (the masks contained perfumes and incense thought to cleanse the air) and the plague was bloodborne anyway (fleas) so those didn't work at all.

[Oldcolt]

Brand new diseases take time to understand. I think the scientific community 'thought' masks would be effective IF this was transmitted mostly thru airborne routes (remember wiping down groceries before we realized it was so much harder to get from surfaces) and (I believe this is key) there were a shortage of PPE for health care providers. Once it was proven to be mostly airborne it had to be proven that masks could prevent transmission before you ask a population to all wear masks. Once epidemiological studies showed benefit we changed. One positive thing about wearing masks is that it should really tamp down the flu season. It is a mess. I wish our government would just trust the scientific community and do what they say.

[Maniac]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Masks became politicized b/c the experts in the US (and by experts I mean Dr. Adams, Dr. Fauchi, etc.; not Trump) royally fucked up by initially telling us that masks wouldn't really help and in some cases (Dr. Adams) urged the population not to purchase them. Then a ~month into it they pulled a 180 and started telling everyone to wear them. There should have been enough data between Asian countries that handled the outbreak well (Japan, Taiwan) and European countries that didn't (Italy, France) for our experts to have known that wearing masks were a good idea.

With that being said, wearing a mask and keeping your distance from people outside your home are pretty easy asks (although I have yet to find a mask that doesn't fog up my glasses; fortunately I can get by pretty well without them), and we should all be following those recommendations/mandates until this is over with.

Fauci stated that the reason they didn't initially recommend masks was because an even higher public run on buying them would have made it a dire situation for medical professionals. So they did it to keep things under control until enough were produced that they could handle the surge in demand. People don't seem to understand that Fauci is not a policy maker. He doesn't do that. He is an advisor. He gives information and recommendations and then the administration makes decisions based on those. When we heard him at press conferences and such, it was him supporting and explaining the decision the administration made.

That's not what politicized the masks though. Trump politicized them. He made fun of people wearing them. He encouraged people to revolt against governors who were trying to get their residents to wear masks and take it seriously. He said the virus would "go away" and that we would be at zero cases soon. His ridiculously poor leadership was what caused the politicization of masks and of the virus itself. He demonized medical experts and thought he knew more than they did. He found out otherwise and is now lying to try to cover up his ineptitude by trying to deflect it onto others. He is a con man.

[Maniac]

Originally Posted by HoosierinFL

Partly the issue was that in the beginning they had no idea there was symptom-free transmission, meaning people could be positive with the virus, not experience symptoms, and still transmit this virus.
The advise originally was "if you are sick, quarantine yourself and wear a mask if you have to go out" which was before they discovered symptomless transmission.

Oh and you're wrong about the history of masks. Up until the early 1900s, doctors did not wear masks nor did they wash their hands, and were offended when it was suggested that they should do both.

The closest things to masks before then were those weird bird masks they wore during the plague, but that was just based on the "bad air" myth (the masks contained perfumes and incense thought to cleanse the air) and the plague was bloodborne anyway (fleas) so those didn't work at all.

They knew that there was asymptomatic transmission. Listen to the Joe Rogan interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm from March:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFhjMQrVts

He mentions it at around 1:20 in.

They just didn't have the supply of masks to handle a huge public demand at that time.

Dr. Osterholm is a great person to listen to and learn from. He is not political. He only wants to find out the truth, the data, and let the public know what that data and truth is.

He did a good interview about the effectiveness of masks a little while ago as well.

[Oldcolt]

Osterholm is one guy I really like. Straight shooter just gives facts that you can rely on. His views and predictions have been spot on. I agree completely with Maniacs assessment of what went wrong so far.

[Spike]

I don't really give a shit if we have a season or not. I stopped watching
MLB and the NBA because of their political bullshit. Same goes with the NFL. I cancelled my Sunday NFL ticket for the same reasons. All of the leftist on this board are probably gonna be pissed off at me, but I really don't give a damn.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Spike

I don't really give a shit if we have a season or not. I stopped watching
MLB and the NBA because of their political bullshit. Same goes with the NFL. I cancelled my Sunday NFL ticket for the same reasons. All of the leftist on this board are probably gonna be pissed off at me, but I really don't give a damn.

As a “leftist” I fully support your decision. Personally I’m proud of you for standing up for your belief that players should just shut up and entertain you. I’m sure you’ll be sorely missed.

[Spike]

Originally Posted by rm1369

As a “leftist” I fully support your decision. Personally I’m proud of you for standing up for your belief that players should just shut up and entertain you. I’m sure you’ll be sorely missed.

Thanks, but I seriously doubt I will be missed. There are a lot of posters who left that were way better posters than me. I use to love sports, not anymore.

Having said that, I'm not going anywhere unless the moderators ban me. I just hope sports gets back to entertaining us and they quit using sports for their political agenda.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by Maniac

Fauci stated that the reason they didn't initially recommend masks was because an even higher public run on buying them would have made it a dire situation for medical professionals. So they did it to keep things under control until enough were produced that they could handle the surge in demand. People don't seem to understand that Fauci is not a policy maker. He doesn't do that. He is an advisor. He gives information and recommendations and then the administration makes decisions based on those. When we heard him at press conferences and such, it was him supporting and explaining the decision the administration made.

That's not what politicized the masks though. Trump politicized them. He made fun of people wearing them. He encouraged people to revolt against governors who were trying to get their residents to wear masks and take it seriously. He said the virus would "go away" and that we would be at zero cases soon. His ridiculously poor leadership was what caused the politicization of masks and of the virus itself. He demonized medical experts and thought he knew more than they did. He found out otherwise and is now lying to try to cover up his ineptitude by trying to deflect it onto others. He is a con man.

Agree on Trump. He's certainly a big part of the problem and could and should have mostly put an end to the anti-maskers months ago. My point was that the experts initially saying masks weren't effective has given the anti-maskers a lot of fuel to put on their fire. I can't say that I know any anti-maskers (or have spent time with any since this all started), but that's typically one of the first things brought up on any social media "debate" that I've seen.

I saw that statement from Fauci on the concerns over mask shortages. It'd be interesting to see if there's any data on how many hospital grade masks were being stock and sold by places like Walmart and CVS. If that number is significant then fair enough. Although in hindsight it would have been better IMO to have issued an executive order that distributors could only sell them to medical facilities (which would be their largest customers anyway) and if necessary pull any stock from big box and drug stores. Then have the experts issue a statement saying that we should be wearing masks but cloth masks will do so leave the hospital grade masks for our medical professionals, and had a video showing how to make one since cloth masks were few and far between on the shelves.

Of course to your point the experts don't set policies, so maybe they tried to do that and the Trump administration balked at it and we ended up with what we got.