Who do you want at 15?

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Pierce wasn't getting open w/ AR at QB either. Also, I read in an Indystar article that stated the Cols aren't confident that he'll be able to develop into much more than what he is. I tried to find the article to post the link, but it's over a month old and having trouble finding it. Will try again when I have some more time on my hands.

Understand your desire to draft a pass rusher, and we could use it. I do worry about Verse though as his production doesn't match his ability. Which actually makes him a Ballard type pick.

Early on they were having AR throw fast and short. You can see it in his completion shart. I think they opened up a little in that last game. We will see this year. But Piece did get open at times and Minshew had either progressed past him or was rushing the play. If he did see him he would throw it late often allowing the CB to catch up. I was at a game and saw it for myself and you can see it on the all-22. Also to note, the separation stat everyone throws out is only on targets. They don't keep track if he is open and the QB doesn't go his way.

Now, this could be separate from them believing he won't be anymore than a deep threat. He has improved in his deep game, he stacks corners pretty well now. But if they don't think he can develop the other parts of his game that is something else. I should note that 23 seems to be a big age for WR's for some reason. They tend to improve around then so we should see here soon.

[ChaosTheory]

Don't throw in the towel on Pierce yet. Healthy AR will give us a better read on him. The separation and ADOT stats make you hopeful that a true QB1 can get him the ball.

But, really... it won't be apples-to-apples. Defenses will obviously not gameplan us the same was as they did with Minshew. That could easily mean that Pierce doesn't get those same open looks downfield because AR can actually burn them.

But that would also mean a trickle-down effect for the rest of the field loosening up. Everybody benefits if AR can take advantage. Pierce included.

[Racehorse]

[QUOTE=Chromeburn;295912]Early on they were having AR throw fast and short. You can see it in his completion shart.

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Don't throw in the towel on Pierce yet.

You might want to throw in the towel if he has a completion shart, like Chrome said.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Don't throw in the towel on Pierce yet. Healthy AR will give us a better read on him. The separation and ADOT stats make you hopeful that a true QB1 can get him the ball.

But, really... it won't be apples-to-apples. Defenses will obviously not gameplan us the same was as they did with Minshew. That could easily mean that Pierce doesn't get those same open looks downfield because AR can actually burn them.

But that would also mean a trickle-down effect for the rest of the field loosening up. Everybody benefits if AR can take advantage. Pierce included.

I'm not saying we should completely give up on him. I'm just no so sure he'll end up being a legit WR2. And I definitely don't think we should pass on drafting a WR or TE b/c of him. Even if Pierce makes a jump this year we still need more weapons for AR.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

I'm not saying we should completely give up on him. I'm just no so sure he'll end up being a legit WR2. And I definitely don't think we should pass on drafting a WR or TE b/c of him. Even if Pierce makes a jump this year we still need more weapons for AR.

Regardless of Pierce, I'd be surprised if they don't take a WR in this class.

As for Rd1... Bowers is probably the best football player that may still be available at #15, so if he's there take him. If not, maybe Thomas at WR but I would think they probably like a defender better in that spot if they don't trade down (which I lean towards).

Plus, it seems like a bunch of 2nd-round WR's will be available.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Regardless of Pierce, I'd be surprised if they don't take a WR in this class.

As for Rd1... Bowers is probably the best football player that may still be available at #15, so if he's there take him. If not, maybe Thomas at WR but I would think they probably like a defender better in that spot if they don't trade down (which I lean towards).

Plus, it seems like a bunch of 2nd-round WR's will be available.

After listening to the Ballard press conference I definitely think they are going pass catcher first. If Bowers is there I think they take him. If any of the top three WRs drop I see them moving up a few spots if they get close. If not… I see them trading back a little to get picks and taking BTj or Worthy. Some oline in the middle rounds and probably throw a DE in there maybe the second. A athletic CB in later rounds also.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

Regardless of Pierce, I'd be surprised if they don't take a WR in this class.

As for Rd1... Bowers is probably the best football player that may still be available at #15, so if he's there take him. If not, maybe Thomas at WR but I would think they probably like a defender better in that spot if they don't trade down (which I lean towards).

Plus, it seems like a bunch of 2nd-round WR's will be available.

Agree we take a WR at some point if not 2, as at the very least we need more depth at WR.

I agree on Bowers. If he's still there at 15 he's likely the BPA so makes picking him seem like a no brainer. If Bowers is gone and we have a defensive player rated much higher than BTJ, then I suppose we take the D player. But if their grades are comparable then I'd like to see us take BTJ. As I said earlier, giving AR more weapons to help w/ his development should be a priority.

You're probably right about trading down. Depends on how things shake out ahead of us, but at this point I'm not a fan of it. If there's a true difference maker at 15 then just take him. Depending on the situation I'd like to see us move up, especially if one of the top 3 WRs drops to within trade up range for us. Although that would almost certainly be Odunze, and both BTJ and AD Mitchell have higher RAS scores so guessing Ballard may have both of them ranked just as high or higher as it is. Plus we all know that Ballard won't trade up.

[nate505]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Agree we take a WR at some point if not 2, as at the very least we need more depth at WR.

I agree on Bowers. If he's still there at 15 he's likely the BPA so makes picking him seem like a no brainer. If Bowers is gone and we have a defensive player rated much higher than BTJ, then I suppose we take the D player. But if their grades are comparable then I'd like to see us take BTJ. As I said earlier, giving AR more weapons to help w/ his development should be a priority.

You're probably right about trading down. Depends on how things shake out ahead of us, but at this point I'm not a fan of it. If there's a true difference maker at 15 then just take him. Depending on the situation I'd like to see us move up, especially if one of the top 3 WRs drops to within trade up range for us. Although that would almost certainly be Odunze, and both BTJ and AD Mitchell have higher RAS scores so guessing Ballard may have both of them ranked just as high or higher as it is. Plus we all know that Ballard won't trade up.

Trade up? For talent?!? Especially when there are so many wonderful athletes with amazing RAS scores?!?!?!?! Not on Ballard's watch!!!

[AlwaysSunnyinIndy]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Plus we all know that Ballard won't trade up.

Originally Posted by nate505

Trade up? For talent?!? Especially when there are so many wonderful athletes with amazing RAS scores?!?!?!?! Not on Ballard's watch!!!

Ballard has traded up in the past so it is possible. Not likely, but possible.

But I think the Colts draft board will have to reflect that the targeted prospect is worth going up and getting.

And if Ballard moves up - he will most certainly try to recoup some extra picks later in the draft through other trades.

So, a different take on the earlier trade proposal with the Jets:


Jets trade:

1.10

Colts trade:

1.15
3.82
2025 3rd Round Pick


So the Colts will keep their mid-2nd Round Pick this year and not trade it to the Jets....only to then trade down from there and swap it for a late 2nd Round Pick and late 3rd Round Pick.

So, in the end, the Colts will move up a little in the first round but move back 10 - 15 spots each in Round 2 and Round 3. (and worry about recouping the 2025 3rd Round pick next year)

[ukcolt]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

Agree we take a WR at some point if not 2, as at the very least we need more depth at WR.

If we take a receiver in the 1st or 2nd round alongside Pittman, Downs, Pierce and Dulin, do we really need to draft a 6th guy? In the 7th round maybe, but what are the chances of that guy actually turning into anything? Personally i would far rather take a flyer on an offensive lineman where you are keeping 9 or 10 guys and they will make a difference.