Fire frank reich

[albany ed]

Originally Posted by JAFF

The best Rb in the nfl havd less than 10 carries going into th last quarter. That is just wrong

How many yards had he gained in those 10 carries?

[Oldcolt]

Who cares if he didn't do anything with those carries. You keep feeding great running backs, they run down a defense over time. But they don't run down shit if they don't run the ball more than 10 times in three quarters. I do not want Reich fired. I do want us to run the ball more

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Who cares if he didn't do anything with those carries. You keep feeding great running backs, they run down a defense over time. But they don't run down shit if they don't run the ball more than 10 times in three quarters. I do not want Reich fired. I do want us to run the ball more

Exactly.

This argument has been adulterated by these weird attempts to take it to places it was never born from.

1- I haven't seen anyone say anything near "we should have run the ball those 26 times". Haven't seen anyone even say anything like "at least 10 of those 26 should have been runs to JT instead". No, those arguing the mismanagement side have not had an all or nothing view, hell personally for me, just seeing him get it maybe 3 times in that span, just to keep that threat in their minds, that would have been enough. It's just a need to keep them somewhat honest vs pinning back and coming after Wentz with questionable PP all season.

2- I agree so much with you on the "well he wasn't getting anything so you have to start passing" take. If Vrabel took that approach, Henry would average about 18 yards a game. Hell Barry Sanders would get stopped 15 times for an average of 1.8, and then go 80 yards- and JT has that same ability without question, he has demonstrated that repeatedly. As I have said, I feel like as a HC you have an OBLIGATION to allow this phenom to have a couple cracks at it in 26 plays. You just have to!

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

Who cares if he didn't do anything with those carries. You keep feeding great running backs, they run down a defense over time. But they don't run down shit if they don't run the ball more than 10 times in three quarters. I do not want Reich fired. I do want us to run the ball more

So is the argument that the Colts should be ok being less efficient on offense for the sake of what the run may be able to do later in the game? In the second qtr Taylor ran 3 times and the team scored 21 points. The drives were 75, 90, and 75 yds. To me that’s pretty damn good offense, but it doesn’t appear you agree. If they rushed him 8 times and scored 10 points are you suggesting that would be better football?

[Oldcolt]

Originally Posted by rm1369

So is the argument that the Colts should be ok being less efficient on offense for the sake of what the run may be able to do later in the game? In the second qtr Taylor ran 3 times and the team scored 21 points. The drives were 75, 90, and 75 yds. To me that’s pretty damn good offense, but it doesn’t appear you agree. If they rushed him 8 times and scored 10 points are you suggesting that would be better football?

I wouldn't argue on any particular play or drive. I agree that those were very good outcomes and could not really be improved. What I am talking about is the general direction this offense is taking. Your assumption is that if Taylor had run 8 times we would not have been as effective. Maybe, maybe not. We scored but we also got a L. We don't have the wide receivers to succeed with this long term in my opinion. Our offensive line is also a better run blocking line right now. As far as good football, they lost.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

I wouldn't argue on any particular play or drive. I agree that those were very good outcomes and could not really be improved. What I am talking about is the general direction this offense is taking. Your assumption is that if Taylor had run 8 times we would not have been as effective. Maybe, maybe not. We scored but we also got a L. We don't have the wide receivers to succeed with this long term in my opinion. Our offensive line is also a better run blocking line right now. As far as good football, they lost.

Im not assuming anything. I’m fine with the way the offense played other than the fumbles. And I don’t think Reich called those. Besides the turnovers on offense, go look at what the defense did from about 5 mins remaining in the second quarter through the end of the game. I don’t understand why guys thing having 4 more runs would have changed that. You are assuming the team could have tried to enforce their will and ran the ball while maintaining the same offensive efficiency. I think that is a big assumption, but even if you assume that unless you specifically remove the turnovers then 3 more runs wouldn’t have mattered one bit. Other than the Hines fumble TB wasn’t given short drives and the Colts D wasn’t going three and out and putting a tired D back out there. TB scored 38 points. Yet the issue is the Colts offense?

The only way 3 more runs affect the outcome is if you cherry pick specific plays that were turnovers.

[Oldcolt]

The issue is our record to me. I could obviously be wrong (am most of the time) but I think a bigger commitment to the running game would help in winning. Imposing your will kinda shit. Now I may be playing checkers and Reich is playing chess. We may be watching the pro refinement of an RPO offense being developed before our eyes. If so then you are right, next year will be fun (we should have the receivers by then and the line will hopefully be less banged up). I do like Reich. He has the things in a man that cannot be learned. Integrety, honesty etc. I just wish he would run the damn ball more.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

The issue is our record to me. I could obviously be wrong (am most of the time) but I think a bigger commitment to the running game would help in winning. Imposing your will kinda shit. Now I may be playing checkers and Reich is playing chess. We may be watching the pro refinement of an RPO offense being developed before our eyes. If so then you are right, next year will be fun (we should have the receivers by then and the line will hopefully be less banged up). I do like Reich. He has the things in a man that cannot be learned. Integrety, honesty etc. I just wish he would run the damn ball more.

I don't understand what happened? When he came in, we became a bully. We had that Run the Damn Ball mantra and we just roughed people up. Then something changed and he became much more about the tricky guy than the we'll just beat your ass guy.

As for the 3,4 runs and changing the game. Not saying any of those 3 or 4 would have been home runs, not any more than you can say all of them would have been 2 yards or less. But I do believe that just a couple hand offs MIGHT have kept the DE just a fraction of a second slower on the edge rush and helped prevent Fisher from getting bitch-made.

FWIW, I guess before we just pulled the plug on the running game JT was still averaging like 3.4 per. That's a first down in 3 runs, yeah yeah yeah I know, not how it works. That said, with this OL and JT, I will lay money on them getting the job done over a certain # of touches vs not getting it done.

[ChaosTheory]

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

...I agree that those were very good outcomes and could not really be improved...

At the risk of coming across as a dick (sorry), and I know you're not a "Fire Reich" guy which is who most of my comments are aimed at, but I have to say...

I don't understand this statement. If you believe the outcome could not have been improved, then what are we talking about here for three days?

If the gameplan couldn't have been better prior to catastrophic player errors, and then after the player errors we decide we don't like the gameplan... It's got to be a textbook example of post-hoc criticism.

Originally Posted by Oldcolt

We scored but we also got a L

I remember the Colts playing the Chiefs on Halloween in 2004. Manning threw for something like 470yds and 5tds. Edge barely ran the ball. We lost by 10 and got crushed in TOP.

I know it's not apples to apples. But the Colts scored. And they also got the L. I don't remember anybody questioning the play-calling or gameplan despite us having a top-3 RB in the league. The defense couldn't stop KC and were rightfully criticized.

Point being that you can have a proper and effective offensive gameplan and things still not work out due to players failing to execute.

[ChoppedWood]

Originally Posted by ChaosTheory

At the risk of coming across as a dick (sorry), and I know you're not a "Fire Reich" guy which is who most of my comments are aimed at, but I have to say...

I don't understand this statement. If you believe the outcome could not have been improved, then what are we talking about here for three days?

If the gameplan couldn't have been better prior to catastrophic player errors, and then after the player errors we decide we don't like the gameplan... It's got to be a textbook example of post-hoc criticism.



I remember the Colts playing the Chiefs on Halloween in 2004. Manning threw for something like 470yds and 5tds. Edge barely ran the ball. We lost by 10 and got crushed in TOP.

I know it's not apples to apples. But the Colts scored. And they also got the L. I don't remember anybody questioning the play-calling or gameplan despite us having a top-3 RB in the league. The defense couldn't stop KC and were rightfully criticized.

Point being that you can have a proper and effective offensive gameplan and things still not work out due to players failing to execute.

I do struggle a bit with this angle. I know this is a little both sides of the coin. However, if Peyton came out and said I am not running the ball a single time against a 3 man rush and a cover 4 shell, I think pretty much the whole football world would say ok, do you. Peyton was pretty good at doing what Peyton wanted to do to any D you put up, unless of course it was BB's defense.