It's Done! Frank is gone!

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Dam8610

What QB has he had a chance at? Josh Allen, but that would've been mindnumbingly stupid at the time given that we had no idea Luck would do what he did. Who else has been available to sign, draft, trade for, etc.? The Texans would not have traded Watson here, and I wouldn't want to be on the other side of that contract if he pulled a Russell Wilson. Speaking of Wilson, he's another guy that could've been overpaid for and flopped. Could've also traded for Stafford, looks like that worked out for 1 season, his statline currently looks as bad as Matt Ryan's. Looking at the draft there hasn't been an opportunity to get a QB without trading up unless they were clairvoyant and drafted Josh Allen somehow knowing Luck would retire. We don't know Ballard's eye for QBs because he's been sifting through the trash heap ever since Luck's retirement. We know his eye for DEs isn't the best, as evidenced by the wasted draft capital at the position, but he hasn't had a chance at QB and he may have found a starting LT in Round 3 of the most recent draft.

Without trading up is the qualifier. That’s what Ballard is scared to do. He’s basically said it could cost him his job if he did it and missed. So serious question - where was the QB supposed to come from if you never trade up but have a decent roster otherwise. You don’t bottom out to get a top guy. You simply wait and hope to get lucky. That’s shitty team management considering it’s the single most important position in sports.

Ballard passed on Hurts and he’s better than the team has. And I advocated in 2020 to do whatever necessary to go get someone, and I said if you didn’t like one of them then they needed to trade one of their seconds for a future first to have ammunition in 2021 to go get their guy. The idea Ballard couldn’t do more than he’s done or that he’s even managed it reasonably well is BS.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by rm1369

Without trading up is the qualifier. That’s what Ballard is scared to do. He’s basically said it could cost him his job if he did it and missed. So serious question - where was the QB supposed to come from if you never trade up but have a decent roster otherwise. You don’t bottom out to get a top guy. You simply wait and hope to get lucky. That’s shitty team management considering it’s the single most important position in sports.

Ballard passed on Hurts and he’s better than the team has. And I advocated in 2020 to do whatever necessary to go get someone, and I said if you didn’t like one of them then they needed to trade one of their seconds for a future first to have ammunition in 2021 to go get their guy. The idea Ballard couldn’t do more than he’s done or that he’s even managed it reasonably well is BS.

He is kinda right. Looks at this list. It is exactly what the Chiefs did and it worked. You don't take a QB because you're forced to, you take him because you think he will succeed. Its been a minefield of bad QBs.

2019
Kyler Murray, 1st
Drew Lock
Dwayne Haskins
Ryan Finley
Jarrett Stidham
Daniel Jones
Clayton Thorson
Will Grier

2020
Joe Burrow, 1st
Justin Herbert
Jordan Love
Tua Tagovailoa
James Morgan
Jacob Eason
Jake Fromm
Jalen Hurts*

2021
Trevor Lawrence, 1st
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Justin Fields
Mac Jones
Davis Mills

2022
Kenny Pickett (Steelers)
Malik Willis (Titans)
Sam Howell (Commanders)
Desmond Ridder (Falcons)
Matt Corral (Panthers)
Chris Oladokun (Steelers)
Bailey Zappe (Patriots)
Brock Purdy (49ers)
Skylar Thompson (Dolphins)

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

He is kinda right. Looks at this list. It is exactly what the Chiefs did and it worked. You don't take a QB because you're forced to, you take him because you think he will succeed. Its been a minefield of bad QBs.

2019
Kyler Murray, 1st
Drew Lock
Dwayne Haskins
Ryan Finley
Jarrett Stidham
Daniel Jones
Clayton Thorson
Will Grier

2020
Joe Burrow, 1st
Justin Herbert
Jordan Love
Tua Tagovailoa
James Morgan
Jacob Eason
Jake Fromm
Jalen Hurts*

2021
Trevor Lawrence, 1st
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Justin Fields
Mac Jones
Davis Mills

2022
Kenny Pickett (Steelers)
Malik Willis (Titans)
Sam Howell (Commanders)
Desmond Ridder (Falcons)
Matt Corral (Panthers)
Chris Oladokun (Steelers)
Bailey Zappe (Patriots)
Brock Purdy (49ers)
Skylar Thompson (Dolphins)

That’s most years - especially evaluated so early. I’ve never suggested it’s easy and it’s not my biggest complaint with Ballard. But the team has a brighter future with Tua, Herbert, Hurts, and Fields. All expensive, but all obtainable. I get the risk. If you aren’t going to swing for a franchise guy then you need stability and support - like an OL and WRs. You can’t rotate QBs while taking 3-4 years to solve LT and WR. Not if you expect to win. Chiefs had stability with Smith. No coach will win with what Ballard has done.

[Racehorse]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

He is kinda right. Looks at this list. It is exactly what the Chiefs did and it worked. You don't take a QB because you're forced to, you take him because you think he will succeed. Its been a minefield of bad QBs.

2019
Kyler Murray, 1st
Drew Lock
Dwayne Haskins
Ryan Finley
Jarrett Stidham
Daniel Jones
Clayton Thorson
Will Grier

2020
Joe Burrow, 1st
Justin Herbert
Jordan Love
Tua Tagovailoa
James Morgan
Jacob Eason
Jake Fromm
Jalen Hurts*

2021
Trevor Lawrence, 1st
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Justin Fields
Mac Jones
Davis Mills

2022
Kenny Pickett (Steelers)
Malik Willis (Titans)
Sam Howell (Commanders)
Desmond Ridder (Falcons)
Matt Corral (Panthers)
Chris Oladokun (Steelers)
Bailey Zappe (Patriots)
Brock Purdy (49ers)
Skylar Thompson (Dolphins)

That is a scary proposition when you look at this list. Giving up multiple picks to move up and getting a bust will cost your job. That said, I wish we could draft one in the first or second round and not have to keep looking. Others think just picking one in the first is a lock for a good QB. It isn't.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Racehorse

That is a scary proposition when you look at this list. Giving up multiple picks to move up and getting a bust will cost your job. That said, I wish we could draft one in the first or second round and not have to keep looking. Others think just picking one in the first is a lock for a good QB. It isn't.

The list almost always looks like that. If it didn’t there wouldn’t always be so many teams desperate for a QB.

[IndyNorm]

Originally Posted by rm1369

That’s most years - especially evaluated so early. I’ve never suggested it’s easy and it’s not my biggest complaint with Ballard. But the team has a brighter future with Tua, Herbert, Hurts, and Fields. All expensive, but all obtainable. I get the risk. If you aren’t going to swing for a franchise guy then you need stability and support - like an OL and WRs. You can’t rotate QBs while taking 3-4 years to solve LT and WR. Not if you expect to win. Chiefs had stability with Smith. No coach will win with what Ballard has done.

This! IMHO you can't blame Ballard for our QB situation. Yes, in hindsight he should have drafted Hurts in '20, but there were a lot of questions on him coming out of college. But you sure as shit can blame Ballard for the LT and RG situation as well as the WR situation over the past couple of years.

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by IndyNorm

This! IMHO you can't blame Ballard for our QB situation. Yes, in hindsight he should have drafted Hurts in '20, but there were a lot of questions on him coming out of college. But you sure as shit can blame Ballard for the LT and RG situation as well as the WR situation over the past couple of years.

IMO you can’t blame him for the lack of a franchise guy. You can blame him for the ridiculous constant rotation and overall lack of a coherent plan.

[Chromeburn]

Originally Posted by rm1369

That’s most years - especially evaluated so early. I’ve never suggested it’s easy and it’s not my biggest complaint with Ballard. But the team has a brighter future with Tua, Herbert, Hurts, and Fields. All expensive, but all obtainable. I get the risk. If you aren’t going to swing for a franchise guy then you need stability and support - like an OL and WRs. You can’t rotate QBs while taking 3-4 years to solve LT and WR. Not if you expect to win. Chiefs had stability with Smith. No coach will win with what Ballard has done.

That's completely unrealistic. Basically, you are saying "yeah well you should have traded up for 1 of the 4 successful QBs out of the 30 available." No one can live up to that standard. Plus the Dolphins and Chargers wanted those QBs, they had deals in place with the Lions and Giants if anyone tried to leapfrog them. You wouldn't be able to outbid them, there is a cap on how much you can offer. Everyone passed on Hurts bc he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. And Fields maybe if they hadn't traded for Wentz who, if he worked out, would be a franchise QB.

He does have a plan, keep looking till you find one. Would it be better to have kept Brisset for several years?

[rm1369]

Originally Posted by Chromeburn

That's completely unrealistic. Basically, you are saying "yeah well you should have traded up for 1 of the 4 successful QBs out of the 30 available." No one can live up to that standard. Plus the Dolphins and Chargers wanted those QBs, they had deals in place with the Lions and Giants if anyone tried to leapfrog them. You wouldn't be able to outbid them, there is a cap on how much you can offer. Everyone passed on Hurts bc he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. And Fields maybe if they hadn't traded for Wentz who, if he worked out, would be a franchise QB.

He does have a plan, keep looking till you find one. Would it be better to have kept Brisset for several years?

There is nothing unique here. Every team looking for a QB is faced with the same dilemmas. To me that is literally the job for the GM of a rebuilding team. I’m not suggesting it’s easy by any means. You are pointing out how hard it is while saying the plan is to luck into a franchise guy falling to them that everyone else misses. I’m sorry, I don’t follow the logic. The way I see it you have three legit options: tank and earn a high enough pick to draft one, pay the price to move up to get one, or build the team around a mediocre vet and build up the supporting cast to help him. Ballard has done none of the three. He gets Rivers but doesn’t go in on the rest of the roster (especially WR) and then doesn’t want him back for a 2nd year. He gets Ryan then rolls the dice at LT, RG, WR, and TE. He hit at WR, but missed on the others. TE will be good in the future - a common theme. He can’t even find an average guy worthy of building around, so everything else becomes irrelevant. Buckner, JT, Grover, Okereke, Leonard, etc all waisted because he’s trying to half ass the most important position in sports.

The issue isn’t that Ballard hasn’t magically found a franchise QB, it’s that he has no logical plan to win given the teams current circumstances. Wait until something falls in our lap is not an acceptable plan. Pacers destroyed their entire fan base using the same philosophy. Ballard’s Colts are well on their way.

And can I ask what is unrealistic about not taking 3-4 years to address WR and LT? Maybe one of their attempts at lucking out with someone else’s cast off would have worked if there was a better supporting cast. Rivers and Ryan both may have been good enough given enough support.

I’m curious, how long is to long on the QB carousel before you think they need to try something different?

[Chaka]

Originally Posted by rm1369

Without trading up is the qualifier. That’s what Ballard is scared to do. He’s basically said it could cost him his job if he did it and missed. So serious question - where was the QB supposed to come from if you never trade up but have a decent roster otherwise. You don’t bottom out to get a top guy. You simply wait and hope to get lucky. That’s shitty team management considering it’s the single most important position in sports.

Ballard passed on Hurts and he’s better than the team has. And I advocated in 2020 to do whatever necessary to go get someone, and I said if you didn’t like one of them then they needed to trade one of their seconds for a future first to have ammunition in 2021 to go get their guy. The idea Ballard couldn’t do more than he’s done or that he’s even managed it reasonably well is BS.

Now, come on...Ballard never said he was scared to draft a QB. Please cite to this source if you think he said anything close to this. I recall him saying that he won't pick a QB just to get the media off his back, because the media would love him at first, but over the long term making decisions just to please the media or fan base is a good way to lose your job. But that's nowhere close to saying he's scared to pick a QB. It's absurd to suggest this.