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Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles
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That argument is somewhat akin to the argument of Tom Brady necessarily being the greatest quarterback of all-time. Wilt Chamberlain was such a dominant force in pro basketball, they changed the rules of the game to stop him. With Michael Jordan (for example), they did the opposite ...... they changed the rules of the game TO ENHANCE AND MARKET HIM MORE. Bill Russell won many more championships than did Chamberlain did (11 to 2), but he ALWAYS had a vastly superior team surrounding him, save for the 1966-67 and 1967-68 seasons when Wilt played for the Philadelphia 76ers. If you took Bill Russell off of the Celtics teams that he played for and replaced him with an average center, they would not have won 11 championships in 13 years like they did, but they would have won at least 6 or 7. They would not have won 12 conference championships in 13 years like they did, but they would have won at least 8 or 9, possibly even 10. If you took Wilt Chamberlain off of some of those Philadelphia Warriors and San Francisco Warriors teams that he played for early in his career and replaced him with an average center, they would not have come anywhere close to competing for a championship as they did. It is reminiscent of what happened to Tom Brady's and Peyton Manning's teams when they each missed an entire year due to injury. In 2008, the Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassell as their starting quarterback when Tom Brady had an injured knee. When Peyton Manning missed the entire 2011 season with a neck injury, they went 2-14 with Kerry Collins, Curtis Painter, and Dan Orlovsky at quarterback.
Also, if those rules that were changed with the sole intent of stopping Chamberlain from being so utterly dominant, I'm pretty sure that Wilt's teams would have won more than the 2 world championships and 6 conference championships that they did during his 14-year career.
As is the case with Tom Brady and Michael Jordan, I try to always look at the entire context of the goings-on of a player's career before necessarily slapping the GOAT tag on them.
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On the side of an argument FOR Russell being the greatest basketball player ever, he was the one constant on the teams that won 11 world championships and 12 conference championships in his 13-year career ...... in the early part of his career, Bob Cousy and Bill Sharman were the starting guards in the back court. When they retired, Sam Jones and KC Jones took over the starting guard jobs, and the Celtics kept on winning. In the front court, Tom Heinsohn and Jim Loscutoff were played alongside Russell early in Russell's career. When those 2 players retired, Tom Sanders and John Havlicek joined Russell in the front court, and the Celtics kept on winning.
In some ways, Russell's constant presence over such a long period of time is somewhat analogous to Jim Palmer's constant presence in the Baltimore Orioles' starting pitching rotation between the mid-1960's and the early 1980's ...... early in Palmer's career, he was flanked by two outstanding left-handers in the starting rotation (Mike Cuellar and Dave McNally.) Later in Palmer's career, he again was flanked by two outstanding left-handers in the starting rotation (Mike Flanagan and Scott McGregor. But through it all, there was always Palmer anchoring that incredible starting rotation. Like Jim Palmer, Bill Russell was the one constant presence in the Celtics' dynasty during his long and distinguished career.
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Here is my take on naming GOATs. In the NBA, you have five starters, and they play both ways. It is easier to name a GOAT based on winning, because he has a greater impact than other athletes in team sports. In baseball, you have 9/10 starters, and most play both ways, but you cannot have a single GOAt, but a pitching GOAT and a hitting GOAT. Football is even worse, when it comes to individual impact, because there are 22 starters, and half do not play half the game. Yes, the QB handles the ball more, and is in charge of more, but after his drive ends, he sits and hopes for the defense to help him out. Some QBs have had more help (Brady and Bradshaw) than others (Manning and Marino) from their defense.
I typed this twice, because I hit a wrong button the first time, and my lengthier post was lost. I hope this all makes sense.