Shopping for a WR1
 

JMV is saying that he has heard that Ballard is committed to finding a proven (i.e. Non rookie) WR1 this off season. In other news, today Rooney issued a statement they are NOT releasing AB but inferred that everything else is on the table i.e. Trade.

I think the consensus in our previous discussion was hard pass on AB. This was my point of view as well but now I'm kind of in the camp of trusting Ballard to do his due diligence and supporting whatever decision he makes. I think he's earned that courtesy. Don't know who else would be on the market that fits the Proven WR1 profile. jMVs reports have been pretty reliable in the past so I'm inclined to believe his report.

Here are a couple names to keep an eye on:

1) Julio Jones (if Atlanta continues to have contract issues with him)
2) AJ Green

Love Antonio Brown's skillset, but he's acting like a bitch right now. He won't even return a phone call from the owner. Not sure I want this team to have to deal with a drama queen like that especially giving up draft picks to get him.

Would rather them go after one in the draft.

The Steelers Bell (RB) and Brown (WR) both would be a cancer to this locker room. Rather not pursue either :cool:

Finding a number 1? They have one, and he plays his ass of even when he's hurt.

They find 2 #2's and here we go. What about Cain? Are they just putting him on the back burner??

I agree, TY and some supporting #2's :cool:

When is the last time that we had a solid #2. Garcon?

Didn't TY play with Reggie?

If that doesn't count, I'll go with Garcon

No, you're right, TY would have been the last good #2 WR in 2012.

My Steelers fans friends all say it is Rape-less burger who is the cancer in the locker room and insist that Brown is a good teammate. They also say that the issues currently are that ownership backs the QB in any issues and Brown finally got tired of his bullshit.

I'd take Brown and his skillset in a heartbeat. No need for Bell at this point.

Sounds like neither of the three is beyond reproach with the team's issues.

Brown should at least man up and return a phone call from the owner or coach. Not doing that is childish.

I have little doubt Ben is a part of the problem, but come the fuck on AB is being a Dumbass Diva in all this.

Give me Bell over Mack

What round pick would be too high to give up for Brown? For me at this point, I wouldn't give up more than a 4, because I'm not upset if I lose a 4 and Brown doesn't work out. Also, if he leaves the Steelers, his new team has him on a $0 guaranteed contract, so cutting him would not be an issue at any point, meaning if he comes in and acts like a diva/fool, it's not an issue. I'd want to talk to him first, but getting his talent for a 4 with that little risk attached is something I'd do.

For me, it's a 3rd. Nothing higher, and I doubt that would be enough.

I doubt they're going to get much offered the way Brown is acting. Randy Moss was traded for a 4 when he was being a malcontent. I also doubt the Steelers are going to take him back after this.

I wanted Moss in a big way. Dude is one of the smartest football players there is

I guess at that small amount of compensation things change, but I can't realistically see him going anywhere near that low, especially in the same conference.

Hmmmm......I didn't realize it but TY and AB share a special bond. They grew up in the same part of Miami and though they never played together, TYs dad was his coach and an important figure in his life due to a troubled childhood. Raises a new wrinkle.

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geK...jweWUjqSnByzc-

Randy Moss went in the same conference for a 4.

This is part of why I'd be willing to do it. Maybe being around his childhood friend who is apparently much less dramatic would help him. Plus I'd love to see the Steelers take the cap hit on Brown's guaranteed money.

Antonio Brown’s cap hits to a new team: (assuming that he would be traded prior to 16 March 2019 so that the new team would have to pay his due $2.500m Roster Bonus. If traded after 16 March 2019 and PIT pays the bonus, then his 2019 cap hit to a new team would only be $12.625m)

2019 = $15.125m
2020 = $11.300m
2021 = $12.500m
2022 = UFA

2018 / 15 games / 168 targets / 104 catches / 61.9% / 1,297 yards / 15 TD / 0 Fumbles
2017 / 14 games / 163 targets / 101 catches / 62.0% / 1,533 yards / 09 TD / 4 Fumbles
2016 / 15 games / 154 targets / 106 catches / 68.8% / 1,284 yards / 12 TD / 0 Fumbles
2015 / 16 games / 193 targets / 136 catches / 70.5% / 1,834 yards / 10 TD / 3 Fumbles
2014 / 16 games / 181 targets / 129 catches / 71.3% / 1,698 yards / 13 TD / 2 Fumbles

Any way you slice it, Brown, from purely a cap hit / talent / production standpoint would be a fantastic value to trade for. There is no wide receiver we could draft with a 2nd / 3rd / 4th round pick that would deliver the same level of immediate impact to our offense over the next three seasons. Long term? Different story since Brown is already 30 and will be 31 for the 2019 season; he is a 3 to 4 year rental rather than a long-term piece.

Oh, but what a rental? T.Y. on one side, Brown on the other with Doyle and Ebron as the tight ends? If Cain develops? If Inman is signed for another season? If Fountain develops? With our O-Line?

It all comes down to attitude. I was pleased to hear that after Rooney said that “all options are on the table” that Brown tweeted a picture of him signing his 2017 contract extension saying “Good Business, #Boomin.” This might indicate that his issues are with HC Tomlin and players rather than a bad attitude towards the team as a whole.

I have a co-worker who is as much of a Steelers fan and I am a Colts fan. Grew up in PIT, dad has season tickets, lives and breaths Black & Gold. His characterization is that Brown has been that he has been “feisty” his whole career with tweets and comments to the press but has never before this season been “out of line.” He thinks that the real issue is with Big Ben (my friend wants him to retire and rebuild) and not Brown or Bell.

The youth T.Y. and Brown connection is also interesting. Certainly that insight to the character of his youth would be a pretty important data point to have.

Regardless, I would give up a 3rd for sure and perhaps even our lowest 2nd round pick for Brown IF Ballard is convinced that he can come on this team, keep his ego in check and be a good teammate. Wide Receiver is, IMO, our weakest position group going into 2019 outside of T.Y. and adding Brown immediately solves that problem. There are going to be few other solutions available in free agency this off-season and drafting a high-round WR rookie is almost always going to be a crap shoot for the first couple of seasons.

We have the cap space for years to come, he fills a need and the cost would be relatively cheap in terms of draft choices for a KNOWN sure-fire player of his caliber. I would be onboard if Ballard makes the trade.

Walk Worthy,

It seems strange that an organization like the Steelers would have two problematic players at one time. Not a crazy notion to think the constants being Ben and the ownership could be what has set both of them off the deep end. Send a 3rd and 4th for the package deal.

Maybe the cancer is Rapelisburger and Tomlison?

Honestly, I'm less concerned about Brown reports out of PIT (I think they completely coddle Big Ben who is more usually the problem) than I am the fact that Brown is 30 years old. He was surpassed this season by JuJu on pure effectiveness. He's still a damn good WR, but you're not getting prime or approaching prime with Brown; you're getting start of decline. Any financial commitment would have to acknowledge that.

I think underrated or underdeveloped players will continue to be Ballard's forte.

In the underrated department, Golden Tate intrigues the hell out of me....but he's more of a slot than a boundary WR. Colts could still use that skillset.

I think a name to watch out for is Tyrell Williams. Chargers are gonna have roughly $27M in cap space and need to pay Verrett and Perryman at the very least. Not sure how much Williams will command as he didn't put up monster numbers by any stretch, but he's 26, 6-4 and kinda has the career look of a Reggie Wayne type on the verge of breaking out.

Yes, this was well reported when they first came into prominence in the league

I guess I am in the minority because I would love for Brown and TY to pair up. Seems like a whole lot of shit going on in Pitt and I don't blame it all on Brown. Roethlisberger always seems to have a problem with someone, OC, players, coaches, women who for someone reason won't have sex with him in a bar or in public.

We have an extra second round pick, I'd even give up that for Brown. Or pair the compensatory 4th we are getting with a 3rd.

I would rather have Brown than Bell. RBs fall of quicker that WRs and the running game has been fine with Mack. A back goes up and put up that performance for you in a big playoff game and you tell him great, but we are signing a new, older RB , for a lot more money, to replace you, seems like a bad message

I'd do it for a 4th, as long as Ballard and Reich had a conversation w/him beforehand and were convinced that Brown's problems are situational and not based on his personality.

I don't like JMV's wording about looking for a WR1. We have our WR1. We could use a better WR2. Grigson looked all over for one in FA and never found one. He drafted one in Hilton, but I still remember Hilton losing reps to DHB. Avery, Nicks, Andre Johnson, none of them could do the job.

I think with this line and Luck healthy, investing too much in skill positions is a mistake. There are a relative ton of pass rushers with expiring contracts this year. Maybe one or two of them shakes loose. I'd rather spend money there. Yes I know, we have tons of cap. We can do both. But it would need to be the absolute right guy for this team. Luck with time can elevate his receivers.

If you're concerned about decline, Tate will be 31 next year. Williams will be 27 and has had a 1,000 yard season, he might be worth a low end starter's contract.

I think southpaw said it, that Ballard's fantastic off-season in draft and FA means that he has earned our trust that he will do the same level of due diligence that brought us the best draft in 100 years and fixed the OL in a dingle season.

That said:

trading a 3rd and a 4th for:

a 31 year old WR (who generally peak at 27) and
a 26 year old RB (who generally peak at 25)

Smacks of Grigson-Johnson-Gore.

(side note, though I am all in for Marlon Mack, I would have loved to see Gore run behind this line)

Yeah, if they got to the bottom of the issue then a 4 or possibly a 3 I would be fine with. We have the money and I think he would still be good over the next couple years.

From sports talk radio and some articles it sounds like ben is an issue and tomlin enables it by not doing anything. Steelers org sounds like its falling apart. Unless he is a total headcase I would guess that luck, reich, etc might keep him in line. Change of atmosphere often fixes these things as well.

Regardless of the circumstances though, he controls his response. He has chosen to be a dramatic dumbass. No one forced that. There would need to be understanding that no one in this locker room is going to push him into anything, so he needs to leave that nonsense in Pittsburgh.

I really doubt Ballard has this on his radar though.

Crazy theory alert:

I don't think Ballard is interested in Brown, but wants the rumor mill to give some misdirection for us. If other AFC teams think we are possibly going to pursue Brown, a potential rival may offer up enough to put them in A) cap hell, or B) lacking in draft capital. Then, a rival will have the lockerroom issues and we will get a WR in the draft who will be WR2, sign Bell instead, trade for Julio, etc.

that is true.

I dont think ballard will go for either of them and I am fine with that.

Williams is a really intriguing name. The one thing I'm confident about is that Ballard and Reich want some bigger WRs. Williams would fit that mold.

There are also some big WRs in the draft who should be available between 25-60. Getting Williams and one of those guys could give the receivers a significant upgrade.

Hopefully Cain makes it back and continues to improve as well. :cool:

Yeah, I was trying to avoid going all Sherck, but here is goes anyway. This would be a significant upgrade at WR next year:

Hilton
Williams
Top 60 WR draft pick
Inman
Cain
Pascal (depending on injuries/ability to contribute on ST)

Williams also gives you the flexibility to get a smaller, speed WR in the draft since you have some size with Williams, Inman, and Cain.

And just cutting off the reply before it happens, this isn't to say that I expect Cain to be WR5 on the depth chart. This is just starting him out lower with the hope that he proves his health and produces to the point of moving up.

No thanks. 31 and acting like a diva. In a must win game to make the playoffs he sits on the sideline in a fur coat. Then leaves the freaking game. I don’t care who started it. Guy sounds awful. No way I want him on this team and no way the Steelers let him walk for a 3rd or 4th. Wr’s are going for 1st rounders. That is what they will want.

They don't have the leverage to get a 1. I'd be shocked if they had enough to get more than a 4.

EXACTLY.

You have on the Colts, TY Hilton, who has gutted out a bad ankle since before the playoffs. And he DELIEVERS. You can't bring in a guy, who's going to get a shit ton of money and has bailed on his team when the playoffs was on the line.

No. Absolutely FUCKING NOT.

Makes me crazy. Talent does not equal dependable.

I didn't read the whole thread, but we have Cain and Fountain. Let's see what they have and not waste resources on a WR1. We need a pass-rusher or two more anyway