Originally Posted by JesusChrist (Post 88064)

You are skewing your perception of the "evidence" to make it fit your argument. You even admitted that this team has had more than it's fair share of injuries. If our injury situation wasn't as ridiculous as it has been, we would probably be at 4 wins at the very least right now. Coaching absolutely matters on game day. You need talented players and you need coaches who can scheme and call plays to put those players in the best possible position to use their talent. Pagano's dumb ass had no idea how to do that.

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 88069)

Sorry, no offense intended, I meant it to be more of a joke given how much debate that issue has generated here. Not trying to beat that dead horse any further.

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 87972)

Good teams use guys like Mike Adams all the time as filler for a few years. I like it

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 88070)

Good players can overcome bad scheme. Bad players can overcome good scheme. The latter happens far more often. The job of coaches is to get their players to maximize their talent. Scheme can help with that, but ultimately the coach can't go out and catch the ball or make the tackle. The player has to do that. That's why the impact of coaching is negligible on gameday.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 88070)

Good players can overcome bad scheme. Bad players can overcome good scheme. The latter happens far more often. The job of coaches is to get their players to maximize their talent. Scheme can help with that, but ultimately the coach can't go out and catch the ball or make the tackle. The player has to do that. That's why the impact of coaching is negligible on gameday.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 88070)

Good players can overcome bad scheme. Bad players can overcome good scheme. The latter happens far more often. The job of coaches is to get their players to maximize their talent. Scheme can help with that, but ultimately the coach can't go out and catch the ball or make the tackle. The player has to do that. That's why the impact of coaching is negligible on gameday.

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 88068)

Chaka, I see no reason to continue this conversation. The point to me seems pretty fucking simple - inexperienced teams have a hard to winning consistently. You’ve said they probably haven’t won as much so far because of their youth, but can’t get it through your head that’s that’s my primary point. I simply don’t see a reason to be so young and / or thin at certain spots to start the season. There is nothing in your mind that could allow the team to be 4-3 or 5-2 at this point and still have Leonard, Nelson and a slew of young players with upside. To you as soon as you bring in another vet at LB (doesn’t matter which of the 3 positions) Leonard disappears from the team. You are happy with 110% of Ballard’s moves and I’m happy with probably 85% of them. Somehow that means I give him no credit for anything.

I’ve told you I won’t play the “tell me who” game. I know exactly how that goes. If Ballard hadn’t signed Ebron and I now identified him as a target you’d have 15 reasons we couldn’t have signed him, he wouldn’t help, and / or he would just hold back Swoope’s development. If I had identified Mitchel as a player that could help this team (I wouldn’t have) before he was signed would you have agreed? Fuck no you wouldn’t have! But here he is helping the team win. So no, I won’t play that BS game with you. I’ve already kept Leonard from being drafted. I sure as hell don’t want to get TY cut by improving a shitty WR core.

I’ve said I like the team. I like the progress. I like Ballard. I expect him to get the team back to contender status. I like the coaching staff. I like the majority of the individual players. I simply don’t agree with the depth of the youth movement. I believe (as you have said) that it has cost us games this year. You see the fact they were in a lot of close games as progress. I don’t disagree. But I also see it as proof they could be sitting at 4-3 or 5-2 with small improvements in some areas. Like WRs that can catch. I see the fucking progress, I’m in no way trying to minimize it. Yes I expected progress with the return of a franchise QB and a competent coaching staff. That doesn’t mean I don’t also see the progress in other areas. I’ve said I do. Because I see and expected progress is the reason I only agree with 85% of Ballard’s moves. If I thought everything sucked and had to be burnt down I would, like you, agree with Ballard 100%.

That’s it. I’m done with this conversation. I don’t troll and I don’t criticize every Ballard move. I simply state my opinion. It’s stated. You disagree. Time to move the hell on.

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 88070)

Good players can overcome bad scheme. Bad players can overcome good scheme. The latter happens far more often. The job of coaches is to get their players to maximize their talent. Scheme can help with that, but ultimately the coach can't go out and catch the ball or make the tackle. The player has to do that. That's why the impact of coaching is negligible on gameday.

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 88172)

Short version: I get the last word because I say so.

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 88174)

Fuck off. Chaka can respond and say whatever the hell he wants. How the fuck am I stopping him from responding? I’m simply not continuing arguing about it. Seems pretty clear we don’t agree.

Not surprised you are the one stirring the pot though.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 88104)

This is where you argument falls short. Say it with me, "there was no combination of moves Ballard could have made in 2018 UFA that would have made the Colts a Super Bowl contender this season." You're arguing for a more competitive team in 2018 with no chance of winning a title. Keep your eye on the prize.

This team's window starts to open in 2019. Maybe Ballard makes a few key additions in UFA next offseason. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't, but we can't judge him on 2018.

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 88175)

Maybe you should seek help. Your anger about a stupid message board is not healthy.

On the football side, I think you have a different idea about how to build a team than Ballard does. I get it. Not all GMs are identical in how they do it. Now I don’t think you’re a troll, but I do disagree with your criticisms. As a HS coach, I see the value in taking a step back to build a culture because I had to do it. It sacrifices a season, but pays off dividends in the future. Maybe you agree on that, but just can’t explain it in a way that we can agree. Maybe you don’t. Hard to tell on here.

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 88111)

But they shouldnt have too... that is why we have a new coach

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 88194)

Every team has bad scheme occasionally. Good players can still make good plays in those situations.

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 88068)

Chaka, I see no reason to continue this conversation. The point to me seems pretty fucking simple - inexperienced teams have a hard to winning consistently. You’ve said they probably haven’t won as much so far because of their youth, but can’t get it through your head that’s that’s my primary point. I simply don’t see a reason to be so young and / or thin at certain spots to start the season. There is nothing in your mind that could allow the team to be 4-3 or 5-2 at this point and still have Leonard, Nelson and a slew of young players with upside. To you as soon as you bring in another vet at LB (doesn’t matter which of the 3 positions) Leonard disappears from the team. You are happy with 110% of Ballard’s moves and I’m happy with probably 85% of them. Somehow that means I give him no credit for anything.

I’ve told you I won’t play the “tell me who” game. I know exactly how that goes. If Ballard hadn’t signed Ebron and I now identified him as a target you’d have 15 reasons we couldn’t have signed him, he wouldn’t help, and / or he would just hold back Swoope’s development. If I had identified Mitchel as a player that could help this team (I wouldn’t have) before he was signed would you have agreed? Fuck no you wouldn’t have! But here he is helping the team win. So no, I won’t play that BS game with you. I’ve already kept Leonard from being drafted. I sure as hell don’t want to get TY cut by improving a shitty WR core.

I’ve said I like the team. I like the progress. I like Ballard. I expect him to get the team back to contender status. I like the coaching staff. I like the majority of the individual players. I simply don’t agree with the depth of the youth movement. I believe (as you have said) that it has cost us games this year. You see the fact they were in a lot of close games as progress. I don’t disagree. But I also see it as proof they could be sitting at 4-3 or 5-2 with small improvements in some areas. Like WRs that can catch. I see the fucking progress, I’m in no way trying to minimize it. Yes I expected progress with the return of a franchise QB and a competent coaching staff. That doesn’t mean I don’t also see the progress in other areas. I’ve said I do. Because I see and expected progress is the reason I only agree with 85% of Ballard’s moves. If I thought everything sucked and had to be burnt down I would, like you, agree with Ballard 100%.

That’s it. I’m done with this conversation. I don’t troll and I don’t criticize every Ballard move. I simply state my opinion. It’s stated. You disagree. Time to move the hell on.

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 88191)

Who said I’m angry?

I understand the importance of culture. I’m aware of companies that have had to start from scratch to effect the necessary change. But while I would never suggest the Pagano lead Colts had a great team culture, I’m not aware of it being that degree of toxic either.

Interestingly I just went back and read the first 20 pages of the off-season free agency thread. I saw plenty of big wishes on who the team would sign. And I saw arguments on the value of certain players. Want to know what I didn’t see? Anyone suggesting that Ballard couldn’t bring in free agents because they would stunt the growth of the young players. Or anyone suggesting the team needed to “take a step back” to rebuild the culture of the team. I find that interesting considering how obvious both of those things seem to many now. So obvious that any suggestion otherwise is now considered not only wrong, but apparently so wrong as to basically be ridiculous. I wonder what the reception of those opinions would have been BEFORE Ballard preached them? I have a feeling they would have sounded as out there as I apparently sound now.

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 88215)

Looks like we agree more than it appeared. However, I see it as crying over spilt milk. You can't get it back, so try to make the best of what is instead of what could have been. To me, that is where the debate is. I get it that many here wanted to win more games this year, because so did I. However, I also see the value in taking a step back out of the ditch in order to be able to move forward. That is where my thoughts come from. It really is an apples and oranges thing.

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 88186)

Free agents can sign multi year deals. So no. My argument stands tall

Originally Posted by rm1369 (Post 88230)

I don’t see that I’m crying about it. I recognize that the Colts hired Ballard to rebuild and it’s going to be done his way, not mine. And I’ve specifically said he has to be given time to build his version of the team. I simply state my opinion and try to explain / defend it. And I try to do it in the appropriate threads. I’m not interjecting my opinion in other threads like the Mitchel thread. I wasn’t in the game thread complaining about Ballard not improving the WR core after drops. Not even the 3 & 4 drop by Johnson in OT with Houston. Nor did I crow in the game thread about the Hairston hold on 2nd & 26 against the Eagles - another clear example of my point about experience effecting the outcome of games. I stated my opinion here because it’s relevant to the rebuilding topic. To me that’s not crying. And it doesn’t mean I’m not happy with the team or that I don’t see a bright future.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 88282)

But you acknowledge that the 2018 season was not going to result in a title either way?

Originally Posted by omahacolt (Post 88339)

Of course.

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 88345)

Then we agree. Hopefully we see Ballard make a push in 2019 UFA. If he makes good moves, then nothing will have been lost in 2018.

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 86648)

Thru six games I see hope in several areas on this team. First we are set with the most important and hardest piece to get-quarterback. To me the offensive line looks like they have the players to jell into a dominant force (with what we have invested in this line it needs to become dominant in the next 1-2 years and I think they are on the way) given time and health. Marlon Mack, if he can stay healthy, may be the answer at running back. The second half Sunday was the first time in ages our running game looked like a real running game. Tight ends seem to be good enough for us to compete. The defensive line has some talent. I really think its a good start for the line. Need a stud to elevate everyone's game in my opinion. Hopefully our #1 will be that. We have one linebacker that we can run with, need more. One safety is set, the other (Geathers) I love but injuries. And thankfully corner back is supposed to be a good position in the next draft. The challenge for the coaching staff is to not lose the culture amidst all this losing. Judging the early season as a rebuild, not by wins and losses, I'm pretty satisfied. I'm not saying we are going to make it to the promised land (and after all not knowing is what makes rooting so much fun) but if you look at where we are I don't know how you could honestly say we are on the wrong track. I'm trying to enjoy the rebuild. Honestly cannot do it on Sundays, but later in the week it doesn't look so horrible to me.

Originally Posted by Colts And Orioles (Post 104694)

o



This Time, Colts are Winning and Building Simultaneously

(By Gregg Doyel)

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...fs/2496591002/

o

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 86648)

Thru six games, I see hope in several areas on this team.

First, we are set with the most important and hardest piece to get ........ the quarterback.

To me, the offensive line looks like they have the players to jell into a dominant force (with what we have invested in this line, it needs to become dominant in the next 1-2 years, and I think they are on the way) given time and health.

Marlon Mack, if he can stay healthy, may be the answer at running back. The second half of Sunday's game was the first time in ages in which our running game looked like a real running game.

The tight ends seem to be good enough for us to compete.

The defensive line has some talent. I really think that it's a good start for the line. We need a stud to elevate everyone's game in my opinion. Hopefully, our #1 draft pick in 2019 will be that.

We have one linebacker that we can run with, need more. One safety is set ........ the other (Geathers) I love, but sustains a good deal of injuries. And thankfully, the cornerback is supposed to be a good position in the next draft.

The challenge for the coaching staff is to not lose the culture amidst all of this losing. Judging the early season as a rebuild (not by wins and losses), I'm pretty satisfied. I'm not saying that we are going to make it to the promised land (and after all, not knowing is what makes rooting so much fun), but if you look at where we are, I don't know how you could honestly say we are on the wrong track. I'm trying to enjoy the rebuild. Frankly, I cannot be this objective on Sundays ........ but later in the week, it doesn't look so horrible to me.