It's funny. I remember 8 years ago sitting back and thinking what a bunch of crazy dimwits that the far right wingers were.

And now today I'm sitting here and saying the exact same thing about most of the lefties, except these folks are far worse.

The right wingers needed tin foil hats, these lefties need a padded jail cell.


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Allow me to correct myself, all MSM.

I have a variety of websites that I visit. I read all of the spin and opinion and generally find that the truth is in small bits from each source. I use those bits to form what I think to be the truth until proven otherwise. Comparing the specific sites out there is pointless, they all have an agenda. I try to unplug the matrix cable from the back of my head as much as I can. It is amusing that 8 years ago nearly half of the country was asking how could anyone vote THAT guy and today half of the country is asking that same question! One side goes to ballet box to voice their displeasure and one side likes to riot in the streets to voice theirs.

Flame on guys!

Are we talking the same right that has co-opted Alex Jones, Breitbart etc. as the informational sources this WH runs on?

Look, while I agree furthering political and partisan divide makes the problem worse and does nothing to address the larger problems (we should be listening to each side and understanding WHY they're concerned/catalyzed), this is a particularly bad time to suggest that the dynamic has flipped.

I agree that we need to listen and make every attempt to understand why they're concerned. I however find that a difficult proposition when they themselves aren't reciprocal.

Calling anyone with an opposing view a racist, misogynist, xenophobe, etc. tends to degrade conversations.

Rioting is a non-starter.

Proper dialogue is difficult in of itself when individuals disagree on the small things... these topics are life altering to some...



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As most of you know, for the first time in my adult life (7 Presidential election cycles), I did not vote for a Presidential candidate this time. I felt that neither person running for R or D were worthy of the office. Both were failures in both character and policy vision.

I would offer a couple of things for folks to think about.

#1 Support of the U.S. Military would be required for the republic to falter or end and the U.S. Military will not be a party of that action. I was active duty for 8 years and have now been a civilian employee of the DoD for 14 years (4 year pure civilian stint in the middle) and I can tell you that there is zero appetite within the military to do anything other than protect and defend this nation and its political system AS LAID DOWN by the Constitution. Remember, the oath of service of a military members is to "Support and Defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Not defend the government or the administration; defend the Constitution and the republic. The current political views of whichever administration is in control at that time have little effect on the U.S. military as a whole (except when they use the military as a social experiment lab).

#2 Trump won 2,626 out of 3,113 counties in the U.S. (84.36%).

That also corresponds to him having won 3,156,470 sq miles of U.S. land mass out of 3,797,000 sq miles (83.13%).

While he did lose the popular vote by over 3 million voters, he lost the state of CA by over 4 million votes. In the other 49 states of the union, over 1 million more people voted for him than for Hillary.

Trump won only 12 of the largest 100 counties (i.e. the cities).

You can decide however you want that he is "illegitimate" or somehow "stole" the election but a huge number of folks in the vast majority of the nation voted for him.

#3 I have now worked in cyber security for the Air Force for more than six years. While I can give no evidence on this forum, the narrative that the Russians "hacked" the election are pure fiction. The Dems terrible candidate, faulty assumptions, horrible election strategy and abandonment of one of their previous core voting blocs (working class whites) is what doomed them to lose to the weakest Republican candidate that the party has put up in decades.

#4 I personally think that Trump's administration will be a disaster. I think Hillary's administration would have been equally a disaster. Why? Because neither have the character, morals or ethics to be better than a disaster. Character matters. Folks who lack ethical character cannot but be a disaster in whatever they do. Folks with superior character and ethics will succeed no matter what they do.

#5 Luckily, there is not much that the federal government does that effects the daily lives of the average American. The decisions of the people in our lives, the companies that we interact with, the organizations that we choose to associate with and local governmental decisions effect our daily lives in much, much greater proportion than do the decisions of the Federal government. As the framers of the Constitution intended.

#6 In the words of poet Edward Fitzgerald "this too, shall pass" (quoting a much older Persian proverb).

So, Freaks, live your lives, love those around you and thank your God that Grigson was fired as GM of the Colts.

Cheers,

Well sherck pretty well sums up my feelings as well

I voted for Gary Johnson. Wasn't the perfect candidate, but better than the two other idiots.

The Russians and god knows what other countries have been trying to influence elections for a long time. 2008 and 2012 as well, both had the same type of reports of Russians influencing or stealing info from the democrat and republican election committees. No different than this year.

Trump is an arrogant idiot. Clinton was a power hungry idiot capitalizing on her husband's name, some way George W Bush did with his dad's name. Neither really "deserved" the job.

I'm sorry, but comparing Clinton's faults to Trump's faults feels incredibly weak to me.

One would be a President you disagreed with but could live with keeping the executive branch alive until you can vote for a better candidate 4 years later.

The other already has the executive branch in shambles, is embarrassing the country on an international stage and is making a mockery of the office.

Any other year, I'd agree with the right to think "each is an idiot". I honestly just can't fathom how anyone could not see Trump as by far the greater evil here, though.

And I think it's dangerous to just sit this out, too, because that just further empowers Trump in this climate. I trust in the Constitution to hold strong and enough checks and balances in place -- between the public and judiciary/legislative branches -- for this to not end in apocalypse, hard as Trump is trying to fumble the nuclear football right now. But I do think we're fighting for the intelligence, reputation and truth-literacy of America moving forward, if nothing else, and valuing the truth has to matter at some point.

EDIT: I got sidetracked here a bit but keeping this so as not to revise. I don't think the point anymore is Clinton v Trump or WE WON YOU LOST! I think the point is that Donald Trump is President and doing some scary shit. And we should be honest about what that is, why it's happening, talk about it, see why it does happen (what it REALLY addresses) and what can be done to make this a better country moving forward.

Of course, if you're blindly for a Muslim ban without thinking beyond that, I cannot help you.

That's just your partisan shining through. They both sucked. No, Hillary was not better than Trump and you can not perpetuate enough bull shit to even make that somewhat plausible. That cunt had as much or more baggage than that dufus had. They are both embarrassments to their respective party. With Trump being so unqualified, yet other than liberal Utopia Komifornia the country voted for him anyway. They did so out of frustration from failed policy the previous 8 years. Hell who we kidding, the last 3/4 of a century.

I voted for Trump. I had one reason and one reason only. Scotus. He didn't disappoint with his selection either. I hope the other ole hag retires this year, too. One more appointee and the SC will be set for damn near an entire generation. Everybody screams and shouts about both the idiots, like they are really anything other than figure heads. It's laughable really. Mattis was a good decision in his cabinet. So far he has pretty much been the only bright spot of Trumps pick sans the Scotus pick.

Now I set back and wait for the eventual collapse of this albatross. It's not even an if, it's when.

At the current rate, this country is doomed. I'm glad I'm middle aged and have no children.