Maybe Dam was right
 

So here we sit 1-5 and just got spanked by a bad team w/ a rookie QB. It's ridiculous how bad our offense is with their first half net total score being -8 points in the first half of the last 3 games (although some could -11, but I'm not including the FG scored after Luck's int at midfield of the NE game as all on the O). I fully expected us to be much better just based off of better coaching alone, but that hasn't happened at least on the offensive side. Maybe Dam was right and Clappy McWoodchopper wasn't all that bad.

No,no,just no.

You had maybe one guy in O who can consistently catch the ball. Both sides of the ball are beat up. Can anyone tell me who played RG today? Smith was at RT and he didnt suck.

The O was pretty good when they didnt tip the ball to the jets. The O was fun to watch. The D played all out. They are missing the best pass rushers and depth. There was coaching on the side lines for the Colts. You cant say that for Chuck

Did Luck even get sacked today? How many times was he pressured? Now compare that to the O-Line the previous 3 seasons, where Luck and Brissett were getting hit almost every time they stepped back to pass.

This offense is light years ahead of those offenses from a tactical standpoint, so let's stop with this nonsense.

See the thread on this game, plenty to be critical about with certain play calls

Overall though I still like the offensive scheme MUCH better than prior years with Pagano.

Its been drops, mistakes by Luck, stupid risky play call that have killed them.

No, the O was god awful today. Pick 6 on a drop by Mack, couldn't get into the end zone from 1st and goal from the half yard line (Hines drop on 3rd down), 2 terrible ints by Luck, 3rd and out without taking any time off the close at the end of the first half which allowed them ample time to extend their lead. The D is much better under Eberflus than Manchichi, but our Offense still sucks. I know there are 2 big injuries right now with Hilton and Doyle, but really disappointing that they're this bad this late in the season.

Luck's also playing with NO weapons.

we aren't going to agree at all on this one.

You don't score 34 points with a "god awful" offense

Certainly they made mistakes, but you should win most games scoring over 30 in this league

This game was lost in the first half where our O gift wrapped a td to them on the 2nd play of the game and then turned the ball over 2 more times on our side of the field which turned into 10 more points for them. Going 3 and out and only taking ~15 sec off the clock at the end of the half, and settling for a FG from 1st and goal on the half yard line didn't help either (on a drive started deep in their territory courtesy of a turnover from our D).

Edit: In addition our O handed over 20 points form turnovers in their own end. Not even including the points they left on the field by not getting into the end zone from the red zone (at least 8) then their net effect was 14 not 34. Yes, go awful.

Also in addition I love how Chester Rogers is able to catch the ball when we're down by multiple scores and it's pretty much meaningless. Can't believe Fontain is actually worse than that worthless POS.

Losing is hard. Makes it hard to think clearly.

It is possible for a team to hire to head coaches in a row. It happens all of the time. Some will never be head coach material. This might be another one of them. We almost had one of BB's assistants and those aren't successful either.

LOL if Pagano were coaching, this game woulda been done after the Mack pick-six. They would have run the ball 3 times the next series out of fear of doing the same, punted, and the boat race would have begun from there.

Look, coaching matters, so does talent. Talent is probably most important because good players can make a mediocre coach look good. I see it at USC every year, bunch of underachieving 4-5 stars who elevate a bad coaching staff. A coach can elevate his players play, but he has to be damn good; i.e. Belicheat. And Belicheat had some good defenses and an accurate QB. Most good coaches will still lose if they don't have any talent.

Pagano was a cheerleader coach, the players loved him. But he was very dependent on good assistants. When he first started I think the assasstsnts were good, then steadily got worse. Pagano made some bone headed calls, he was not a good gameday coach. He always looked confused. Decent game plan, but no adjustments. His theories and strategies seemed made for ten years ago. He also was not very good at coaching young guys, not that Grigson's drafts helped at all. Grigson had to get FA's bc he couldn't find talent in the draft. Also Pagano and his coaches sucked at player evaluation as well: TJ green, that other corner that got cut after a year, I read Banner was a Philbin pick, etc.

Anyway, I see much more progressive strategies from this group of coaches. They make adjustments, in game decisions are made. But don't delude yourself, this team is hobbled with injuries. I saw it happen to a talented Chargers team last year. Injuries will derail your season. We have a bunch of rookies at WO. We have nobody in the secondary except Hooker who is really still a rookie in terms of experience. We were not that talented to begin with, now we are decimated.

Next man up is a nice theory for a rah rah type inspiration. But few teams if any have depth, the divide between starters and backups is usually pretty big. Ebron was just playing slot because we had two healthy WO's. I doubt he knew wtf to do.

He wasn’t

This is dumb, there is so much logically wrong with this I can't even bother.

Fair enough. Just frustrated with what seems like a lot of underachievement this season.

Really? Underachieving? With this roster and injuries it is difficult to see how they are underachieving. They are what we see. First year of a complete rebuild. Patience is called for this soon into the season

What did you think they would do this season? Win the division? Go to the playoffs?

We're on pace to lose more games than last year despite having Luck back , a 2nd off season with a supposed competent GM, and a supposed better coaching staff. So yes, we are underachieving.

I expected us to win more than 3 games, which is what we're on pace for.

I expected that also, then I saw this team play and pile up injuries. New coaches, new system, young players-you have never been able to get any continuity. It's a team sport, meaning you have to play together as a team. You need the same basic guys out there week after week to learn how to play as a cohesive unit. Once you do that you can replace a guy here and there that gets injured. We've been dealing with injuries to key guys right out of the gate. We are so desperate we sign guys off the street on a Monday and start them Sunday. We are what our record says we are. It's tough right now but it will just make it that much sweeter when we finally start winning.

Healthy, they might have

.

The best lineman just played his first game of the year.
Don't even get me started on the merrygoround the O line has been
The QB hadn't practiced in 20 months
No stud RB
Only TY as a viable pass thread
A rush the passer by committee
Not one vet LB worth much
The most athletic S with a blown ACL
A gang of misfits at the corners
the other S always down with an injury

WHAT were your expectations?

Except TY is also out,I agree with you.

I saw a stat on Twitter yesterday that Brissett led 25 TD drives in total last year. Luck has led 17 already this year.

This year's 1-5 team would beat last year's 2-4 team by 20+ points easily.

They are not significantly underachieving from what should have been expected this season. In the short term, excluding the change at QB with Luck’s return, the roster is simply worse than last years roster. And it’s significantly less experienced. The coaching is also inexperienced (in their current roles) and hasn’t been above scrutiny, but the biggest issue is that they are simply a talent deficient and inexperienced team. Throw in a large number of early injuries and they are right around what should be expected for the path Ballard has chosen. You hope they start to show better the second half of the season as things, hopefully, start to gel.

Not if Luck gave them 20+ points off turnovers.

Yes, this whole thing is very frustrating to watch. No doubt. Yes, this is a rebuilding ball club. What really gets to me is the time it takes to get a solid team to go with a stud QB. It could be year 9 or 10 into Luck's career before it all comes together.

I take it by Luck, you mean Mack and Turbin, right?

I love the hills you die on, Dam: that Pagano is a good coach and Luck is the issue. You really are a national treasure.

I absolutely disagree with this. This roster is better than last year, even excluding Luck. On offense last year, we were ranked somewhere around 29th-31st depending upon the stat utilized for the measurement (points per game, yards per game, etc.). This year we are mid-pack, somewhere between 10th and 17th depending upon the stat you look at. I realize Luck has a lot to do with this, but I’m not sure how you remove him and come up with any sort of reliable conclusion. I’ll just say this: last year we had Dante Moncrief and Kamar Aiken as our 2nd and 3rd WRs, who together accounted for 91 catches and 2 TDs between them. This year’s 2nd and 3rd receivers, Ryan Grant and Chester Rodgers, despite the drops, are on pace for 144 catches and 5.3 TD catches. Now, you can complain that we didn’t resign Moncreif, but that would be ironic because you’d have been hard pressed to find support for that idea this offseason, when Jacksonville paid him $10 million. Oh, we also didn’t have Ebron, who is on pace for 16 TD receptions this year.

Please demonstrate to me that more than half of the players on this year’s offense are worse than their counterpart last year – I think you’d have a hard time identifying more than 1 or 2.

On defense, which is largely unaffected by Luck’s presence (and yes, I realize the offense can impact how often the defense is on the field), we are ranked in the mid-20s even after the last two high scoring games. Last year, by contrast, we were in the high 20s or low 30s depending upon the stat. We are averaging 3.2 sacks and 1.7 turnovers per game this year, versus 1.6 sacks and 1.25 turnovers last year. We are also younger, cheaper and have significantly more upside than last year’s squad.

Again, please demonstrate to me that more than half the defensive players are worse this year than last.

The only possible argument that last year’s team was better is the team record – 2-4 vs. 1-5. But we’ve all seen the games involved, and I can’t imagine last year’s team would be any better than 1-5 with this year's schedule (they may have beaten the Jets, but we should have this year as well).

I'm not saying Luck is the sole issue, but Peyton Manning had the same issue Luck is having now before Dungy came along. Dungy and his staff taught him the importance of ball security, and he went from really good quarterback to 5 time NFL MVP. Also, the fact that you brought up Pagano in a discussion about Luck and ball security shows who's actually obsessed with Pagano.

A lot of you seem to be losing your minds over the results so far. Are you really that surprised? Were your expectations that high going into the season? And did they stay that high when our starters started mass migrating to IR?

Just enjoy development this year and look forward to next. Luck will improve his dumbass throws, our WRs will learn to catch or Ballard will find ones that can. The OL is playing well, in a new scheme, with an inconsistent lineup. The defense is further ahead than expected. Leonard is a blue chip, the front 7 system works well, they'll figure out the backfield once our corners don't suck. Our coaches are up-and-down but trending up as they gain experience. Ballard has made mistakes, but he admits them and shows he works to get better. Some of his decisions have been proven right, like drafting Leonard "too early" and keeping Hunt over Anderson (still should've kept Anderson, but I digress).

I am not a homer. If anything I am a lean-negative fan and person. I think you just have to have a realistic perspective or you're gonna have a bad time. Even without the injuries this would be a team that would struggle to earn a winning record, it's just not there yet.

This team has been in every game, and the ones they've lost have been because of turnovers and poor decisions. That's what needs to be eliminated. Hopefully someone on Reich's staff has the wherewithal to teach this offense the importance of ball security.

I was surprised about yesterday, not about any of the other results this year so far.

Yesterday's game was a shit show with lots of mistakes by many players and coaches.

A very winnable game they just pissed away.

Threw away a good 20 points, if not more, one way or another

We've had several very winnable games, that is just the most recent one. This team is too young and inexperienced, and the veterans too injured, for us to get enough of the critical details right to win consistently.

Below are the squads that suited up for week 6 games this year and last.

QB's
2018 - Luck, Brissett (Clearly better)
2017 - Brissett, Tolzien

RB's
2018 - Mack, Hines, Wilkins, Turbin Not a lot of difference, but considerably better receiving threat
2017 - Gore, Mack, Turbin

WR's
2018 - Rogers, Grant, Pascal, Johnson
2017 - Hilton, Moncrief, Aiken, Rogers, Bray (Clearly better)

TE's
2018 - Ebron, Swoope, Alie-Cox, Hewitt Better pass catching threat but a lot worse inline blocking
2017 - Doyle, Williams, Daniels

OL
2018 - Castonzo, Nelson, Kelly, Glowinski, Smith, Clark, Boehm (Clearly better)
2017 - Castonzo, Vujnovich, Kelly, Clark, Haeg, Kalis, Person,

DL
2018 - Sheard, Woods, Stewart, Turay, Ward, Ridgeway, Muhammad, Phillips Not a lot of difference, better at rushing the QB this year, but not quite as stout against the run
2017 - Anderson, Woods, Hankins, Hunt, Stewart, Ridgeway

LB's
2018 - Leonard, Walker, Franklin, Adams, Goode Not a huge upgrade, but slightly better, due to the superlative performance of Leonard
2017 - Simon, Morrison, Bostic, Sheard, Sankey, Mingo, George

CB's
2018 - Desir, Moore, Wilson, Hairston, Milton
2017 - Melvin, Davis, Moore, Desir, Hairston, Milton Probably Better

S's
2018 - Hooker, Mitchell, Odum, C Moore A Push
2017 - Hooker, Farley, Butler, Green

ST's
2018 - Vinatieri, Sanchez, Rhodes A Push
2017 - Vinatieri, Sanchez, Rhodes

Thanks, this is helpful. I do disagree with your exclusion of the currently injured Colts such as Hilton, Doyle, Hunt etc. because I think this distorts the analysis a bit. Those guys are part of the roster this year, and will return (with a few exceptions), so if we're comparing the composition of the 2017 and 2018 rosters I think they should be included. This would move the needle even more in this year's direction.

Also, I don't think your conclusion that we are not as stout against the run this year is supported by the statistics. According to NFL.com we are currently giving up 3.7 yards per carry, whereas last year we gave up 3.9 yards a carry. So we've actually improved, despite the howls of protest heard here when Hankins, Simon, Anderson were jettisoned.

I think our linebacker corps is greatly improved this year. A big chunk of this is due (as you point out) to Leonard's presence, but I think Walker has been a big upgrade too. Last year the LBs group, as a whole, were pretty pathetic. Also, I should mention that it might not be a full apples-to-apples comparison due to the change from a 3-4 defense to a 4-3 defense.

Lastly, and on more of a gut level, your comparison just highlighted for me how much better and more exciting our current roster is. Reading all those names from last year brought back depressing thoughts of mediocre play.

This was quite literally a comparison of the squads after 6 games, so there would have been some attrition of the squad by this point of the season last year as well.

When I say a winnable game, I mean one that going into it, the fans had a reasonable expectation that the team very easily would and really should win

None of the other losses were like that. Maybe Houston, but its a division game and always tough

Yesterday was against a 2-5 team with a rookie QB and missing half their starting CBs themselves, Colts still couldn't manage to win.

So yes, the other games were also close, but I wasn't surprised about a loss to Philly or NE or even CIncy in week one.

This one, I expected them to win and they lose in disappointing fashion

I am not expecting any wins this season. The Jets have a stronger roster in several areas and an experienced coaching staff. We had a young, injured, one-win team going into NY.

The Jets are coming off back to back 5-11 seasons, have finished last in their division 3 of the last 4 years, start a rookie QB and had not won back to back games in over a year

Not exactly an imposing team, even if it is on the road.