You denied it when I said he scored an 18. Now you move the goalposts and explain it away. You’re insufferable. And his score says he might be borderline retarded.

Not surprised at all by that. It's lying season. Maybe that's coming from the Colts?

Fields is a good passer, he did a lot of pro concepts at Ohio State (don't take my word for it, go watch JT O'Sullivan talk about the Ryan Day offense). I don't know that the test doesn't mean anything. I also don't know that a low score is some kiss of death for a QB. I just know that if S2 measures anticipation and processing speed, CJ Stroud scoring an 18 is the opposite of what I'd expect based on the tape.

I said I wanted to see some level of proof of it. That was provided. When I saw that, I said it doesn't make sense with the tape. I'm not trying to "explain it away", I'm saying his tape shows anticipation and excellent processing, which is the opposite of that score. The creator of the test said the leaked numbers are wrong, not me. So take that for what it's worth. All this stuff coming out about Stroud right at the end of draft season really seems like some team trying to get Stroud to fall.

So I've seen these rumors out there as well. Don't know about the uncoachable part, this would come from the OSU coaches and is probably kept within circles and scouts. As for looking bored... I don't know that's subjective. Is his body language bad? I noticed a scout mention it in the latest Colts draft video.

S2 score. I saw some actual scores posted online in one of my posts above, but don't know if they are accurate. The S2 guy went on PFF podcast and said all the leaked scores are incorrect.

The Manning Passing Academy thing would have been for last year as a counselor. From what I've read they asked him to come last minute and he already had a full schedule and had to refuse. Seems perfectly reasonable to me if it was a last minute ask.

No doubt. It would be just as big of a red flag as the ones Jalen Carter has been flying since the national championship game. Like you said though, just a joke speculation on my part.

Yeah, I think there's just not enough data on it yet. Also, these leaked scores could all be fucked up. Depending on the source, I've read that these reported scores are:



-The overall number grades out of 100 (which means he bombed).

or

-What percentile they scored in among other participants (18th percentile is still not good, but the actual scores could theoretically be way closer than the 75-point gap being reported).

or

-Only one score based on one of the nine sections of the test (so he could've bombed one particular section and excelled in others).

So this came out a couple hours ago.

https://www.si.com/.amp/nfl/2023/04/...oung-cj-stroud

Imagine thinking any of these guys are going to be as good as Trevor Lawrence...

Five and a half days to go. Calgon, take me away!

Imagine thinking Trevor Lawrence is going to be better than all the QBs in this class...

I hope he isn't, but it isn't much of a stretch to imagine it being possible. He has the tools, and only being in Jacksonville could actually screw him up. Too bad they got rid of Meyer so quickly.

He has the tools, but he hasn't learned any of the skills in 5 years. His passing ability today is similar to his passing ability as a Freshman at Clemson. The athleticism bails him out until he comes up against a team with an elite QB and a great defense. He may be able to win games without developing further, but he won't do much more than winning a weak division, if the division stays weak.

No matter the scores of the QB's in the S2 test, that has to be a very small component in the choice by any good GM.

I would favor traits in this order:

• Leadership, Character and Coachability
• Accuracy
• Ability Under Pressure
• Arm Strength
• Athleticism
• intangibles i.e. cognitive testing, speakability w/teammates and the media etc. etc. etc.

Very few of these prospects were coached correctly in college, sans Luck.

Lawrence certainly wasn't coached well under Meyer, then he gets some real coaching and improves.

So let's look at PM's first 2 seasons. Great coaching and continuity within the coaching staff. He had a very difficult rookie year. I was extremely concerned until he brought the team back in the 4th qtr, against a quality Jets team for the victory. Peyton then breaks out in year 2.

So maybe the light goes on for Lawrence in year 3 and he has a breakout season with 2 years of actual good coaching.

If not, I'll agree with you that he will just be a run of the mill mediocre QB in the NFL.

If I’m the GM I’m taking Richardson

His speed has to be respected and creates openings all over the field, there’s no Dlineman in the AFC south that can run him down

He wants to be great and he lines up with Steichens “all ball” philosophy

He’s 20 years old so should easily be the qb for the next 10 years

Say whatever you want about the accuracy but he should be throwing to some big windows because of the fear of his legs

o


Dam says that I'm the only one here of that persuasion.

o

You make good points, I personally think Levis is a safer choice, but the potential upside of Richardson could have whoever passes on him kicking themselves in the balls for the next 10 years!:D

One more thing about those S2 scores. Apparently they are from Bob McGinn who has an excellent reputation as a sports reporter and it was received from NFL personnel. If so, that score is really concerning. Something doesn’t add up. If that is the score teams received. Stroud may drop some.

If you look around the AFC and that QB gauntlet. You will need someone special just to get you through the playoffs.

The thing is though the light has already gone on for Lawrence. Despite getting off to a rough start due to the hangover from the Meyer dumpster fire, he still threw for a 66% completion percentage, 4,100 yards, and a TD/Int ratio of 25/8. If you look at the 2nd half of the season (final 9 games) he threw for 70%, 2,300 yards, and 15/2.

Of course Dam's delusional ass is going to get on here and say all of that was pure luck, but anyone with any sense knows you can't luck your way into those good of numbers in the NFL.

You're fired.

More elaboration on Stroud.

https://twitter.com/_mlfootball/stat...L8ardaxv32vrGQ

Maybe he bombed it intentionally because he didn’t wanna go to the Texans or panthers?

Anyone thought of that?

I’m sure all these bullshit tests start to weigh on you as an individual

You’re drafting a football player not a doctor

That's what RM and I were saying a few pages back. Good score doesn't mean great QB. But bad score means probably not a great QB. I wonder if this was the same quote RM was referencing.

So it is a percentile, not a score. Still a monster gap according to those quotes.

By the way, I assumed the S2 only started in the past couple of years after they ditched the Wonderlic. But they've been using it for seven years. Does anybody know if more past score have been posted?

I'd love to see the correlation.

Dams gonna love this…

Latest ESPN mock has Stroud falling to us at 4

dam will be insufferable

really i don't care. i just want a young qb. preference being richardson

Not really, I'd love it if the situation actually plays out.

I’d be alright with it, not to mention knowing the Texans passed on him should give him added motivation playing them twice a year

Oof. Why?

Yeah, anybody but Richardson.

Saw this today.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/sport...e/70139209007/

“All the leaks that you’re seeing is one number," Ally said. "It is a mistake to value one number. We give 9 different cognitive tests. If you score in the 90th you could be in the 10th for object tracking which means you have tunnel vision.”

The "anybody but"s are Levis and Hooker for me.

Better be one of the 4 chromeburn listed… my list stops there anything but the guys after the top 4

It really only started to see the spotlight because Brock Purdy came out of nowhere and people were asking how? Then someone pointed out his high S2 score. But you got the gist. 7 years of data. Been busts with high scores, but no successful low scores.

I still don’t know if the Stroud’s 18 is his total score or just one of his scores. I assume the teams have all this data so the leaks are interesting. Is someone trying to get him to drop? Or maybe a team saying hey we’re gonna pass on him for a reason.

Given the allegedly top 4 in this years draft that is a real possibility. Your guy has the mental capacity of a potato apparently. Two of the other 3 leave a lot of room for improvement. If Young was 6'3" or 6'4" and 220-225 this would be a moot point for any conversation on who is the best QB in this draft.

The test creator of S2 said the leaked scores are inaccurate, and the film shows CJ Stroud as very capable of processing quickly and reading defenses well. Film trumps all, the measurables are there to help interpret it, but the evaluation is done by watching the games. I don't know that I'd rank Young ahead of Stroud even if he were that height and weight, because there's evidence both ways. Watch Stroud vs. Georgia and Young vs. Texas and then tell me Young is the better QB. If you do, I know you're biased.

Stroud played in snoop dogs little league in California, just an interesting tidbit

You make it sound as if the evaluation of game tape is easy and obvious. If that were the case busts wouldn’t be so common. Just because you see it doesn’t mean others do. If Stroud is even available for the Colts that means at least one pro GM didn’t see it as obviously as you apparently have.

Far from it, evaluation of film is difficult. That's why 50% is a high hit rate in the NFL draft. Coming away from one draft with four plus starters or impact role players is a great draft, it's why Ballard is considered a great drafter, he's done that consistently. That's also why the combine and pro days exist, to give data to compare to the film. But the film is the deciding factor of any evaluation.

And of course not everyone is going to see it the same way. If you saw the big board of 10 different teams, you'd see no less than 4 different rankings of the QBs, and my money would be on more than that. Some teams have Richardson as the #1 QB, I'm sure. There's probably even someone who has Levis as the #1 QB.

Which would be one of the reasons people would use other tools like the S2 test. It is tough without having the historical data on the testing, but to me the idea behind the tests make sense. And it makes sense to me that a poor score should be a huge red flag. We don’t know for sure that the test is very predictive and we don’t know for sure Stroud scored poorly, but if he’s available to the Colts I think it’s likely due to the testing.

I can't remember where I read it, but in the article a scout said that Stroud's S2 test did match his tape.

So which do I believe the future HOF GM in Dammy or the scout?