ColtFreaks.com - Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum
Page 3 of 4 12 3 4
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

ColtFreaks.com - Indianapolis Colts Fan Forum (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/index.php)
-   Indianapolis Colts Discussion (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=7)
-   -   Landon Collins (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68396)

Chaka 03-08-2019 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 111853)
Shattering precedent? The Colts made Bob Sanders one of the highest paid safeties in the NFL.
Wasn't that like 10-15 years ago? I was talking about current existing precedent, based upon the info in the article I linked which addressed the current status of safeties in the NFL.

Also, with regard to Sanders, though I can't recall the terms of that particular contract, I'm guessing there were lots of escape hatches in that agreement due to Sanders' extreme injury history, so whatever the contract amount was I doubt he ever received close to what was reported in the media.

VeveJones007 03-08-2019 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 111850)
Thank you. As far as your first point is concerned, to be fair the RBs Gettleman drafted (Saquon Barkley and Christian McCaffrey) have worked out pretty well, so it's hard to fault him for those picks - particularly if he wasn't enamored with any of the available QBs in last year's draft. If the guy was making wild picks and reaching for players instead of taking obvious upgrades, then I'd place less weight in his decision making. So while I don't question that you're right that this decision comes from the GM, it doesn't really address my original question of whether the decision he made (not to tag Collins) causes any concern. From what I've read (and admittedly it's a fairly small amount of info - I knew next to nothing about Gettlemen until this thread was created), the guy isn't afraid to make unpopular decisions, but they are often proven right in retrospect. So I remain concerned about this.

As far as the importance of the safety position in our defense, I'll defer to you and others who are more knowledgeable than me about the X's and O's. I can accept that a good SS may be more valuable to us than to other teams, but that should mean that the other teams won't be willing to pay top dollar for him, and we should be able to get him more cheaply. Ultimately, it's really a question of how much to pay, rather than whether to sign him. Here's an article I came across when looking up Gettleman info which makes the observation that 7 of 8 best paid safeties are free safeties and that strong safeties are usually paid much less:

https://www.bigblueview.com/2019/3/6...dave-gettleman

So by paying Collins as one of the best paid safeties in the league, we'd be shattering precedent more than most realize. It bears noting that this sort of thing worked out pretty well when we drafted Nelson, of course.
The Giants are a dumpster fire and Gettleman's decisions over the last year are a big part of the reason why. If you're looking at decisions that have worked for him, try taking a look at that Nate Solder contract. There are also reports that Gettleman passed on a future 1st round pick offered last year for Collins. Simply letting him walk isn't justifiable.

I don't know what value Ballard will place on Collins. Maybe Ballard sees him as an $8-10MM/year player and won't overpay. Maybe the market is a little more suppressed and the Colts get him at a relative discount.

rcubed 03-08-2019 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 111853)
Shattering precedent? The Colts made Bob Sanders one of the highest paid safeties in the NFL.
technically there is a highest paid player at every position, every year.

smitty46953 03-08-2019 02:29 PM
updated list of safeties on the market... :cool:

Lamarcus Joyner
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Tre Boston
Earl Thomas
Jonathan Cyprien
Tashaun Gipson
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Eric Weddle
Glover Quin
Jimmie Ward
Darian Stewart

sherck 03-08-2019 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 111885)
updated list of safeties on the market... :cool:

Lamarcus Joyner
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Tre Boston
Earl Thomas
Jonathan Cyprien
Tashaun Gipson
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Eric Weddle
Glover Quin
Jimmie Ward
Darian Stewart
Plus our own Clayton Geathers!

There are a huge number of quality safeties hitting the free agency market next week. I have zero double that Ballard will end up with what he wants out of the process to pair alongside Hooker as starters and for quality depth. He has all the tools needed between free agency and the draft to make the position group deep and good.

Go get 'em, Ballard! :)

Walk Worthy,

VeveJones007 03-08-2019 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 111885)
updated list of safeties on the market... :cool:

Lamarcus Joyner
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Tre Boston
Earl Thomas
Jonathan Cyprien
Tashaun Gipson
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Eric Weddle
Glover Quin
Jimmie Ward
Darian Stewart
Ballard has said that he has a better feel for the type of player the coaches want for their schemes. I think a big portion of this decision comes down to Eberflus’s assessment of the type of SS he wants.

jasperhobbs 03-08-2019 07:04 PM
Weddle is now a ram

smitty46953 03-08-2019 07:54 PM
Cardinals just cut Antoine Bethea. :cool:

Racehorse 03-08-2019 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 111885)
updated list of safeties on the market... :cool:

Lamarcus Joyner
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Tre Boston
Earl Thomas
Jonathan Cyprien
Tashaun Gipson
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Eric Weddle
Glover Quin
Jimmie Ward
Darian Stewart
With that number, wouldn't this drive the prices down a bit?

VeveJones007 03-08-2019 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 111947)
With that number, wouldn't this drive the prices down a bit?
Maybe, but remember that some of these guys are scheme-specific, so the number of fits per team will vary.

JAFF 03-08-2019 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 111946)
Cardinals just cut Antoine Bethea. :cool:
Sign him and let him retire a Colt

Dam8610 03-08-2019 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 111947)
With that number, wouldn't this drive the prices down a bit?
Not for Collins. Maybe for Amos.

Chromeburn 03-08-2019 09:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAFF (Post 111951)
Sign him and let him retire a Colt
He had 100 tackles for them last year. He might actually be able to still play.

Chromeburn 03-08-2019 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 111947)
With that number, wouldn't this drive the prices down a bit?
Collins is probably considered cream of the crop. 25 years old, 1 team all pro, 3 time pro bowler, good tackler, team captain, great character. He will likely set the market. Depends on scheme fit also as well.

Coltsalr 03-10-2019 05:43 PM
Rap seems to indicate the Colts are in on Landon Collins:

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/...502021120?s=21

Dewey 5 03-10-2019 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 112075)
Rap seems to indicate the Colts are in on Landon Collins:

https://twitter.com/rapsheet/status/...502021120?s=21
I hope so. I really want this guy. That also means we probably won't get him. I think KC making moves is because they want him as well. Plus Spags is his former DC.

VeveJones007 03-11-2019 11:07 AM
Matt Bowen wrote an article on scheme fits for free agents and picked the Colts for Collins. That's an opinion I really trust.

Chaka 03-11-2019 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 111855)
The Giants are a dumpster fire and Gettleman's decisions over the last year are a big part of the reason why. If you're looking at decisions that have worked for him, try taking a look at that Nate Solder contract. There are also reports that Gettleman passed on a future 1st round pick offered last year for Collins. Simply letting him walk isn't justifiable.

I don't know what value Ballard will place on Collins. Maybe Ballard sees him as an $8-10MM/year player and won't overpay. Maybe the market is a little more suppressed and the Colts get him at a relative discount.
Look, I'm not going to pretend to know a whole lot about Gettleman other than what I read and referred to previously. I agree the Solder contract looks pretty aggressive and a typical high profile free agent signing, exactly the kind of thing I spoke about earlier and what I worry about if the Colts were to chase Landon Collins and sign him to a record-setting contract. Solder probably got the Giants fanbase excited at the time, but now they are not so thrilled about it.

As far as passing on a 1st rounder for Collins, I can't find a reference to that and it's plainly inconsistent with the theory that he devalues DBs - so I question whether it actually happened (I realize you said there were only "reports" of this, and did not definitively say that it happened either).

smitty46953 03-11-2019 11:37 AM
Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

Source: The #Vikings are not exercising the option on starting S Andrew Sendejo, making him a free agent. Another talented safety in the mix before free agency.

Add another Safety to the list :cool:

rm1369 03-11-2019 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 112161)
Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

Source: The #Vikings are not exercising the option on starting S Andrew Sendejo, making him a free agent. Another talented safety in the mix before free agency.

Add another Safety to the list :cool:
Hopefully Ballard upgrades SS and overall depth at safety in free agency and saves the draft picks for other areas.

smitty46953 03-11-2019 03:12 PM
josinaanderson‏Verified account @JosinaAnderson

Landon Collins just told me he will go to the #Skins.

:cool:

VeveJones007 03-11-2019 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 112241)
josinaanderson‏Verified account @JosinaAnderson

Landon Collins just told me he will go to the #Skins.

:cool:
Quote:
Sources: Former #Giants star S Landon Collins is signing a 6-year deal for a whopping $84M with the rival #Redskins. Hard to imagine a box safety with this kind of deal after last year’s slow safety market. This moves the market dramatically.
I like Collins, but I also can't fault Ballard for not going completely bat-shit crazy like that. I'm interested if this moves the pricetag up for Amos as well.

smitty46953 03-11-2019 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 112243)
I like Collins, but I also can't fault Ballard for not going completely bat-shit crazy like that.

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

Sources: Former #Giants star S Landon Collins is signing a 6-year deal for a whopping $84M with the rival #Redskins. Hard to imagine a box safety with this kind of deal after last year’s slow safety market. This moves the market dramatically. :cool:

VeveJones007 03-11-2019 03:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 112244)
Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

Sources: Former #Giants star S Landon Collins is signing a 6-year deal for a whopping $84M with the rival #Redskins. Hard to imagine a box safety with this kind of deal after last year’s slow safety market. This moves the market dramatically. :cool:
$45MM guaranteed! And we were throwing around numbers like 5/60/30!

smitty46953 03-11-2019 03:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 112245)
$45MM guaranteed! And we were throwing around numbers like 5/60/30!
Can't blame the guy his grandkids are set for life :cool:

Coltsalr 03-11-2019 03:20 PM
Do or die on signing Adrian Amos now, I guess.

Chaka 03-11-2019 03:22 PM
Wow, the Redskins and the Raiders spending money like drunken sailors on leave. Who would have ever thunk it?

VeveJones007 03-11-2019 03:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 112246)
Can't blame the guy his grandkids are set for life :cool:
Yep, good day for him and his...and potentially other safeties. Amos would be another really good fit for the Colts, but that's still probably too much for a SS even at 80% of Collins cost.

VeveJones007 03-11-2019 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coltsalr (Post 112247)
Do or die on signing Adrian Amos now, I guess.
No. This draft has some excellent SS prospects.

Butter 03-11-2019 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty46953 (Post 112244)
Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet

Sources: Former #Giants star S Landon Collins is signing a 6-year deal for a whopping $84M with the rival #Redskins. Hard to imagine a box safety with this kind of deal after last year’s slow safety market. This moves the market dramatically. :cool:
I am comfortable with not paying that.

Oldcolt 03-11-2019 04:01 PM
With all the free agents and available draft picks we will be fine at safety.

FatDT 03-11-2019 04:12 PM
Collins is great but those are bonkerkong numbers. The Redskins' stupidity is so bad it actually hurts other teams.

Chaka 03-11-2019 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 112279)
Collins is great but those are bonkerkong numbers. The Redskins' stupidity is so bad it actually hurts other teams.
I look at it this way: its a strategy game, and if you can get your opponent to overspend on a player, it serves to reduce their ability to do other things, and in the end it actually plays to the benefit of the teams who spend more wisely. Your opponent eventually collapses under the weight of all of the bad contracts they enter into. I only regret that it wasn't JAX, HOU or TEN that signed him at these numbers.

FatDT 03-11-2019 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 112284)
I look at it this way: its a strategy game, and if you can get your opponent to overspend on a player, it serves to reduce their ability to do other things, and in the end it actually plays to the benefit of the teams who spend more wisely. Your opponent eventually collapses under the weight of all of the bad contracts they enter into.
That might be true of an actual threatening team but the Redskins put themselves into irrelevant obscurity years ago. Spending money frivolously is all Snyder is good at.

Chaka 03-11-2019 04:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 112287)
That might be true of an actual threatening team but the Redskins put themselves into irrelevant obscurity years ago. Spending money frivolously is all Snyder is good at.
Yep - fair point.

Chaka 03-11-2019 04:42 PM
Just mentioned this in the free agency thread, but its interesting to note that all of the signings thus far have been by non-playoff teams. Perhaps they tend to be the teams with more cap space, but I think it also says something that the "smart" teams have remained on the sidelines to this point.

VeveJones007 03-11-2019 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 112308)
Just mentioned this in the free agency thread, but its interesting to note that all of the signings thus far have been by non-playoff teams. Perhaps they tend to be the teams with more cap space, but I think it also says something that the "smart" teams have remained on the sidelines to this point.
When you can't win during the season, you try to win during the offseason to increase your job security.

Pez 03-11-2019 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 112309)
When you can't win during the season, you try to win during the offseason to increase your job security.
Probably a great deal of truth to that... "see, I'm fixing it... please don't fire me"

rcubed 03-11-2019 05:04 PM
yeah those numbers are a bit bonkers. i kinda assumed we would not spend the money on collins but was hoping his deal would not drive up the prices on other safeties. guess we will see...

albany ed 03-11-2019 05:21 PM
If a safety with weak pass coverage skills can get this kind of money, I think Bell may get a ton from the Jets.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:33 PM.
Page 3 of 4 12 3 4
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
ColtFreaks.com is in no way affiliated with the Indianapolis Colts, the NFL, or any of their subsidiaries.