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-   -   2019 NFL Draft Day 1 (http://www.coltfreaks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72263)

Dam8610 04-26-2019 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpaceman (Post 117943)
A top prospect with a potential congenital heart defect that could kill him anytime.

A bit risky, don't blame them for passing

Somebody was going to put a jersey on him and send him out there. I hope the Colts made the right call on it, but it's hard to look at the tape and the measurables and think they did.

Oldcolt 04-26-2019 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 117945)
Somebody was going to put a jersey on him and send him out there. I hope the Colts made the right call on it, but it's hard to look at the tape and the measurables and think they did.

25 other teams made the same call.

Chaka 04-26-2019 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 117931)
He had arguably the best DE in the draft fall into his lap. All the pass rushers weren't gone. Ultimately all I care about is getting quality talent on the roster, but it's difficult to reconcile that with the Colts passing on one of the best talents in this draft was passed on just to pick up a 2nd round pick next year. Honestly this move would make much more sense if it was their 1 next year. Passing on a player that should've gone top 10 in this draft on talent alone makes a lot more sense if you're locking in a top 15 pick in next year's draft.

If he was such a sure thing, why was he passed over 25 times before the Colts pick arrived (and with many of those teams focused on DL prospects)? Look, this was a typical Raiders / Washington move - go for the big name and ignore the red flags that the other, wiser teams see. Dan Snyder runs his team like a fan.

I wasn't overwhelmed with the return we received from the trade, but I like how Ballard is always focused on the long term success even if its disappointing to the fans to not make a pick on the first day. In a week, we won't care that we didn't have a first round pick, we'll just be focused on the players Ballard selected.

FatDT 04-26-2019 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 117946)
25 other teams made the same call.

Only one team traded away the pick that was used to draft him though. If Sweat reaches his potential Ballard is going to look foolish.

Dam8610 04-26-2019 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 117946)
25 other teams made the same call.

That doesn't make it the right call. 28 teams passed on DeMarcus Lawrence (29 if you count the Cowboys passing on him in round 1). Do you think any of those teams regret that decision?

Maniac 04-26-2019 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 117946)
25 other teams made the same call.

Not really. Some teams had other needs.

He may have been misdiagnosed:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...n-misdiagnosed

Quote:

Sweat recently met with Houston Texans team doctor Dr. James Muntz and was told he had been misdiagnosed with a heart condition in February while at the scouting combine, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported Thursday, via sources with direct knowledge of the situation.

Tests taken at the combine revealed Sweat might have hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, which results in thickening of the heart walls, as doctors in Indianapolis measured nearly two centimeters of thickness, according to Rapoport. Sweat has since met with several experts, who concluded that doctors at the combine accidentally included capillary muscle in their testing and that Sweat's actual measurement is about 1.5 centimeters, Rapoport added.

"Which would mean there is no risk for Montez Sweat under this diagnosis," Rapoport said. "This discrepancy would explain why some teams are absolutely fine with it."
Doesn't much matter now, Ballard and crew passed on him, so hopefully they don't regret that and get some decent players out of the trade down.

Chaka 04-26-2019 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 117949)
Only one team traded away the pick that was used to draft him though. If Sweat reaches his potential Ballard is going to look foolish.

So many of these comments remind me of the post-draft threads from last year, when everyone was complaining about the selection of Nelson, Leonard, and (to a lesser degree) Smith.

It’s certainly possible that Sweat could succeed, no question. I’m certainly in no position to speak meaningfully about Sweat's skills relative to the other DL prospects, or more importantly his medical condition. I just know that lots of smart teams passed over him (or didn’t make an effort to trade up to get him), and a perennially dumb team (Washington) did. As we sit here today, I’ll side with history and say that I think the chances are that this will turn out better for us than it does for Washington.

FatDT 04-26-2019 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 117952)
So many of these comments remind me of the post-draft threads from last year, when everyone was complaining about the selection of Nelson, Leonard, and (to a lesser degree) Smith.

It’s certainly possible that Sweat could succeed, no question. I’m certainly in no position to speak meaningfully about Sweat's skills relative to the other DL prospects, or more importantly his medical condition. I just know that lots of smart teams passed over him (or didn’t make an effort to trade up to get him), and a perennially dumb team (Washington) did. As we sit here today, I’ll side with history and say that I think the chances are that this will turn out better for us than it does for Washington.

While I find your post (and almost all of your posts) irritating the only thing I'm going to say is that I didn't complain about any of the draft picks you listed.

And remind any that need it that disagreeing with a move does not mean that I or anyone else critical of said move means we think Ballard is stupid, incompetent, a bad GM, is less smart than Colts fans on the internet, or should be fired.

Chromeburn 04-26-2019 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 117951)
Not really. Some teams had other needs.

He may have been misdiagnosed:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...n-misdiagnosed



Doesn't much matter now, Ballard and crew passed on him, so hopefully they don't regret that and get some decent players out of the trade down.

I heard this Sunday and then again leading up to the draft. I wonder if all the teams knew and simply some ignored it because they couldn't confirm it themselves. If so Sweat lost a lot of money yesterday and we might have missed out.

Maniac 04-26-2019 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chromeburn (Post 117955)
I heard this Sunday and then again leading up to the draft. I wonder if all the teams knew and simply some ignored it because they couldn't confirm it themselves. If so Sweat lost a lot of money yesterday and we might have missed out.

Yeah I don't know. Hopefully for his health it was a misdiagnosis. If so, yes he lost out on a lot of money and is probably pissed off about that, but he can still make a ton of money by proving the doubters wrong.

I'm not saying Ballard was wrong with their choice not to pick him. It's just a bit surprising.

Coltsalr 04-26-2019 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldcolt (Post 117946)
25 other teams made the same call.

And it was a traditionally stupid team that made the other call.

Maniac 04-26-2019 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 117954)
While I find your post (and almost all of your posts) irritating the only thing I'm going to say is that I didn't complain about any of the draft picks you listed.

And remind any that need it that disagreeing with a move does not mean that I or anyone else critical of said move means we think Ballard is stupid, incompetent, a bad GM, is less smart than Colts fans on the internet, or should be fired.

About the only pick I didn't like last year was Turay. I don't like them drafting project players in the 2nd round. Hopefully the kid develops. He showed flashes here and there, so we'll see.

VeveJones007 04-26-2019 10:18 AM

I fully recognize that it goes against our nature as crazy, irrational fans, but it's okay to say "I don't have an opinion on the Colts passing on Sweat because I have no idea what kind of medical information the team was given. Oh, and I'm not a fucking doctor."

Dam8610 04-26-2019 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 117954)
While I find your post (and almost all of your posts) irritating the only thing I'm going to say is that I didn't complain about any of the draft picks you listed.

And remind any that need it that disagreeing with a move does not mean that I or anyone else critical of said move means we think Ballard is stupid, incompetent, a bad GM, is less smart than Colts fans on the internet, or should be fired.

Exactly. If this was Grigson, I'd be ready to riot. As it is, I'm only mildly irritated with Ballard, mostly because he proved himself last year. That said, the 2018 draft doesn't make any decision Ballard makes beyond question. He can be wrong.

Maniac 04-26-2019 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 117963)
I fully recognize that it goes against our nature as crazy, irrational fans, but it's okay to say "I don't have an opinion on the Colts passing on Sweat because I have no idea what kind of medical information the team was given. Oh, and I'm not a fucking doctor."

Fans by nature are crazy, and have plenty of opinions. That's why boards like this exist. It's debatable how rational most opinions on the internet are.

Chaka 04-26-2019 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDT (Post 117954)
While I find your post (and almost all of your posts) irritating the only thing I'm going to say is that I didn't complain about any of the draft picks you listed.

And remind any that need it that disagreeing with a move does not mean that I or anyone else critical of said move means we think Ballard is stupid, incompetent, a bad GM, is less smart than Colts fans on the internet, or should be fired.

Look pal, I didn’t go back to check your comments from last year, and I wasn’t accusing you specifically of leaving such posts – only that there were tons of such posts last year and your comment reminded me of them. Nor did I suggest that you believe Ballard is incompetent and needs to be fired – so quit being a drama queen, please.

As far as my posts are concerned, sorry they irritate you but the truth hurts sometimes. I mostly refrain from commenting about player skills, offensive/defensive schemes, etc. because I recognize that many of the posters here (yourself included) plainly know more about those things than me. That’s why I come here in the first place – to read that kind of input and hopefully learn a little from everyone. However, I do know a little about business, negotiating and long term strategy – issues which are sometimes overlooked here - so I try to contribute some perspective from that angle. But, as always, you don’t need to listen and you are free to ignore my posts.

VeveJones007 04-26-2019 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maniac (Post 117967)
Fans by nature are crazy, and have plenty of opinions. That's why boards like this exist. It's debatable how rational most opinions on the internet are.

Of course. Though if we're grading things on a spectrum of rationality, how would you compare these two:

1) The Colts are idiots for passing on a player with a heart condition.
2) I don't know enough about the player's medicals, so I'll withhold judgment on whether or not it was the right call.

Maniac 04-26-2019 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 117970)
Of course. Though if we're grading things on a spectrum of rationality, how would you compare these two:

1) The Colts are idiots for passing on a player with a heart condition.
2) I don't know enough about the player's medicals, so I'll withhold judgment on whether or not it was the right call.

Has anyone here said the Colts are idiots for passing on a guy with a possible medical issue (if he was not misdiagnosed as reported that he may have been)?

FatDT 04-26-2019 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaka (Post 117968)
Look pal, I didn’t go back to check your comments from last year, and I wasn’t accusing you specifically of leaving such posts – only that there were tons of such posts last year and your comment reminded me of them. Nor did I suggest that you believe Ballard is incompetent and needs to be fired – so quit being a drama queen, please.

As far as my posts are concerned, sorry they irritate you but the truth hurts sometimes. I mostly refrain from commenting about player skills, offensive/defensive schemes, etc. because I recognize that many of the posters here (yourself included) plainly know more about those things than me. That’s why I come here in the first place – to read that kind of input and hopefully learn a little from everyone. However, I do know a little about business, negotiating and long term strategy – issues which are sometimes overlooked here - so I try to contribute some perspective from that angle. But, as always, you don’t need to listen and you are free to ignore my posts.

Lol ok.

Dam8610 04-26-2019 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 117970)
Of course. Though if we're grading things on a spectrum of rationality, how would you compare these two:

1) The Colts are idiots for passing on a player with a heart condition.
2) I don't know enough about the player's medicals, so I'll withhold judgment on whether or not it was the right call.

Or:

3) The medical experts don't seem to think the heart condition is a big deal because they let him workout at the combine where they wouldn't let Maurice Hurst do the same last year, and some medical experts seem to think he doesn't have a heart condition at all. He was a top 5 talent in this draft available at 26, and Ballard passed on him and didn't get a first round draft pick in 2020 for his trouble despite dropping 20 slots very early in this draft. While I'm mildly annoyed at the decision making of the front office in this instance because getting a top 5 talent at 26 seems like a no brainer to me, especially at a position of need, I'm still confident based on their past results that they'll add a quality group of players to the roster.

3 seems the most rational to me.

Hoopsdoc 04-26-2019 12:26 PM

Well, if Dammy hates the move, we can rest assured it was the right one.

VeveJones007 04-26-2019 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 117987)
Or:

3) The medical experts don't seem to think the heart condition is a big deal because they let him workout at the combine where they wouldn't let Maurice Hurst do the same last year, and some medical experts seem to think he doesn't have a heart condition at all. He was a top 5 talent in this draft available at 26, and Ballard passed on him and didn't get a first round draft pick in 2020 for his trouble despite dropping 20 slots very early in this draft. While I'm mildly annoyed at the decision making of the front office in this instance because getting a top 5 talent at 26 seems like a no brainer to me, especially at a position of need, I'm still confident based on their past results that they'll add a quality group of players to the roster.

3 seems the most rational to me.

Your very first comment, and therefore the basis of your rationale, is one giant assumption which you couldn’t possibly know.

Dam8610 04-26-2019 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 118000)
Your very first comment, and therefore the basis of your rationale, is one giant assumption which you couldn’t possibly know.

You're saying I can't possibly know what the medical professionals are indicating? Or that I can't possibly know whether Sweat was allowed to work out at the combine?

VeveJones007 04-26-2019 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 118002)
You're saying I can't possibly know what the medical professionals are indicating? Or that I can't possibly know whether Sweat was allowed to work out at the combine?

“Medical professionals don’t seem to think...”

We don’t know what they really think. All we have are various reports that do not necessarily true. Any positive report could just be coming from Sweat’s agent. Any negative report could have been fueled by teams hoping he would fall to them. We. Don’t. Know.

Dam8610 04-26-2019 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeveJones007 (Post 118040)
“Medical professionals don’t seem to think...”

We don’t know what they really think. All we have are various reports that do not necessarily true. Any positive report could just be coming from Sweat’s agent. Any negative report could have been fueled by teams hoping he would fall to them. We. Don’t. Know.

Read the whole thing. "The medical experts don't seem to think the heart condition is a big deal because they let him workout at the combine where they wouldn't let Maurice Hurst do the same last year, and some medical experts seem to think he doesn't have a heart condition at all." PROVABLE FACT: Montez Sweat was allowed to work out at the combine after being diagnosed with the condition. PROVABLE FACT: Maurice Hurst was not allowed to work out after being diagnosed with his heart condition. Using simple logical deduction, we can infer from the above provable facts that if Montez Sweat has a heart condition, the doctors who examined him at the combine don't think it's serious enough to prevent him from the strenuous physical activity of performing football drills, in part because we saw them remove someone last year from workouts for the same reason. So yes, to some degree based on their actions, we can tell what they think.

Luck4Reich 04-26-2019 06:45 PM

Hes a Redskin now... move on!

Luck4Reich 04-26-2019 06:47 PM

If Ballard just finds another Leonard and a lot of good depth at this point I'll be happy. He will add a couple more key FA signings that will be good contributors. O LINE will Gel more as will 2nd and 3rd year players grow and get better. This team will be fine.

Racehorse 04-27-2019 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSpaceman (Post 117943)
A top prospect with a potential congenital heart defect that could kill him anytime.

A bit risky, don't blame them for passing

Len Bias comes to mind

Dam8610 04-27-2019 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racehorse (Post 118441)
Len Bias comes to mind

Keep him away from cocaine, then.

AlwaysSunnyinIndy 04-28-2019 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puck (Post 117902)
If you listened to his presser he was asked about Sweat. He made a face and said I'm not going to get into that. But he is a good. Good player. So my take is its medicals.

https://www.colts.com/video/


Taking a look after the draft + UDFA signings, it appears to me that the Colts HEAVILY scouted Simmons, Sweat and Abram. There are 4 of their Mississippi State teammates that were either drafted (Green in Round 6), signed to UDFA contracts or invited to a rookie mini-camp tryout.

Racehorse 04-28-2019 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dam8610 (Post 118442)
Keep him away from cocaine, then.

My point was that when you draft a player high in the draft, and said player keels over, you end up with nothing to show for the pick. You can blame it on drugs or a heart defect, but he is dead either way, and the team lost out on getting value for the pick.


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